universal wax for budget recreational skiers?

[Muleski]

I’m gonna need a list of stuff for a newie water. I have a bench I can use. I would be SKERD to grind bases and sidewalls, but waxing is within my learning curve .

So @Muleski

Give me a list of needed stuff you think I can handle

Will do. Give me a couple of days. Lots of opinions, lots of questions on here. I'll PM a few ideas.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Several years back my brother in law got the idea to make waxes, and dealing in the aerospace business had access to the patents and raw material for all said high performance waxes. I used my business to get samples of same and the samples sent are worth $$$$$ on the open market. I have enough magic dust to last me lifetimes over. Ironically, I still have to find reason to use them as how I wax seems to give a good glide its little effort and cost.

 

[Jacques]

I had the opportunity to speak in depth with a group that was doing some extensive testing at Norquay a few years back. They had a section of the Mtn all to themselves and spent days doing nothing but timed inline runs, one after the other, purely for glide purposes. It was miserably cold at the time and the snow was squeaky dry. Of the many different things I asked them about, fluoros and their uses was at the top of my list. When I asked about fluoros making your skis slower in different types of snow, mainly dry low humidity snow, because I'd "heard" this before as well, they all kinda of chuckled and said that is simply not true and that the use of fluorinated wax may be less beneficial when the snow is dry, but it will never make your skis run slower. They also went on to tell me that some amount of fluoro is always a good thing no matter what the snow conditions are.

Fluoro wax has a higher internal friction. It's not going to always be faster. It all depends to what degree the fluorocarbon is applied. A LF may be fine, but a HF or MF may be too much.
What I said was I only use them when they are needed.
One that thinks fluorocarbons are always faster will fall into a trap of despair.
For drier snows a well prepared base with zero fluorocarbons will be just as fast as long as an anti-static is placed into the equation.
That said all the anti-statics I use (I always use one or the other) contain small amounts of fluorocarbon.
Anyway a tiny bit, okay. Too much when not called for will decrease glide.
So again, it depends on the percentage applied. Just because a tiny bit is good does not make more better given the same condition.

 

[PisteOff]

I’m gonna need a list of stuff for a newie water. I have a bench I can use. I would be SKERD to grind bases and sidewalls, but waxing is within my learning curve .

So @Muleski

Give me a list of needed stuff you think I can handle

I started here....and I started with the 139.00 kit but should've just stepped up to one of the better ones as I ended up adding the other stuff anyhow.
ski-tuning-kits-with-irons-more
Buy one of these kits with the vises and then all you'll be looking for is a table to set it up on, I'd add in a specialized base angle guide. The edge tool is great for side bevel but not so accurate for the base. I use the Base Beast which can be found at www.the-raceplace.com. I have one base guide for regular skis and one for race skis. The other thing you will want if the kit you buy doesn't come with it is a scraper sharpener and a sidewall planer. At some point you will need to plane your sidewall. It doesn't necessarily hurt with a lot of skis to just plane it back a little anyway. Depends. If the kit doesn't have it you will want at least two different grit gummy stones. Be careful to only tune your base edge when absolutely needed. Usually a quick run with a fine stone or a gummy is all it takes. I dress my sides in. Overdoing the base will put the base edge below flush with the base itself and defeat the purpose. You'll have to roll the ski over that much more to get engagement. There are a lot of guys with a lot more experience than myself who can give you better information but for what it's worth this is how I am set-up and a couple of the things I pay attention to.

 

[Started at 53]

@PisteOff

Nice link, but I would have zero clue on which kit to order

 

[PisteOff]

@PisteOff

Nice link, but I would have zero clue on which kit to order

Start here....racewax-complete-ski-wax-tuning-kit-plus-ski-vise-accepts-snowboard-adapter. This is more than enough to get you started waxing your boards, deburring, and keeping your edges sharp.

There are a lot of books and videos to tutor you on waxing and maintaining your edges.

 

[SallyCat]

Sight thread drift, but does anyone know if there's a difference between ski and snowboard wax? Sometimes I see cheap board wax from decent companies (Burton, Demon, etc.) and I wonder if it's worth grabbing it for my skis.

To the OP, I use Purl purple (universal) and am very happy with it. In the spring, I use their yellow, warm weather wax and mix it with their black graphite wax, and it works well for mushy days in the east.

I bought a mid-range iron and vice set, and put an old door on sawhorses in my basement. It's not fancy, but it's more than adequate. I started with a gummi stone and from there bought tools as needed and taught myself how to use them.

 

[Dwight]

Sight thread drift, but does anyone know if there's a difference between ski and snowboard wax? Sometimes I see cheap board wax from decent companies (Burton, Demon, etc.) and I wonder if it's worth grabbing it for my skis.

No, I use the same for both.

 

[1chris5]

Agreed.....and just to elaborate for the OP you can go on Amazon and get a 3/4lb brick of Hertel Super Hot Sauce All Temp wax for $25 and free shipping if you're a prime member. You can get the FC739 for $57 a 3/4 lb brick and free shipping if you're a prime member. A 3/4lb brick will last a long time if you don't over do it when you apply it. There's a lot of articles and videos out there on waxing techniques. As Mule said, you will need some equipment. I spent a few hundred bucks to get started and added to it periodically.

View media item 1908

Seeing how neat and tidy your work area appears; definately gets me "PisteOff"! Looks great. Cheers

 

[PisteOff]

Seeing how neat and tidy your work area appears; definately gets me "PisteOff"! Looks great. Cheers

LOL a disclaimer should read..... "This photo shot during the off season. What you see is not necessarily an accurate representation of the photographed workspace."

We just added another under the shelf LED light bar to better light the bench yesterday. We are getting ready to start waxing/tuning the boards again.......

 

[crgildart]

Several years back my brother in law got the idea to make waxes, and dealing in the aerospace business had access to the patents and raw material for all said high performance waxes. I used my business to get samples of same and the samples sent are worth $$$$$ on the open market. I have enough magic dust to last me lifetimes over. Ironically, I still have to find reason to use them as how I wax seems to give a good glide its little effort and cost.

 

[1chris5]

Start here....racewax-complete-ski-wax-tuning-kit-plus-ski-vise-accepts-snowboard-adapter. This is more than enough to get you started waxing your boards, deburring, and keeping your edges sharp.

There are a lot of books and videos to tutor you on waxing and maintaining your edges.

I bought the basic kit and i hate this multi-tool. I would use the kit above as a guide and buy all the same tools but I think it is more economical to buy piece-meal. I ended up rebuying all the main stuff. The plastic/metal scrapers; gummi stones etc are great as is. Plastic wears out on the edge tool and I was never comfortable with the result.
I bought these xcman edge files on a budget on amazon. I bought all four. I went to homedepot and bought a couple small spring clamps for @ $1 each. I also dislike the moonstone design. It wore out quickly for me and I used liquid whatever on it always to keep it fresh. I love the moonflex stone that they sell. Buy at least the same grade(s) offfered in the kit. It lasts much longer and gives a much better result.
I use this iron but I am going to upgrade to a Toko in a year or two. I think that ski vise looks really good (i built my own) and may buy someday. I also would consider buying the brush set. Brushes really do a great job on the skis. I use brushes that I bought for other uses but not advisable.
I like Racewax wax but it's expensive. I would buy as others recommend. I bought the cheapest bulk wax I could find on ebay and it works great but is scented (uggh!). I love the warm wax of racewax to clean the bases via hot waxing scraping technique. I've read the softer wax does a better job to clean bases. I only clean a couple times a year. (Pocono snow is very dirty).
I would consider not worrying about base edge until more comfortable. I bought a beast base 1degree but I'm not sure I like it, as it's mostly plastic. I've become proficient of touching up with moonflex without any edge guides.
I set a budget each year and just buy and upgrade each year. Racewax also seems to have a good sale a couple days before black friday. I think last year it was 15% discount and the year before it was 20%. They seem to have sales regularly. Hope this helps. Cheers

 

[1chris5]

LOL a disclaimer should read..... "This photo shot during the off season. What you see is not necessarily an accurate representation of the photographed workspace."

We just added another under the shelf LED light bar to better light the bench yesterday. We are getting ready to start waxing/tuning the boards again.......

I friggin new it! You're not an alien!

 

[Started at 53]

This https://forum.pugski.com/threads/si...nce-vs-return-on-investment.6388/#post-149065 is very interesting. The return on investment when talking about paying someone else to tune edges and your time doing it is an interesting balance.

 

[1chris5]

This https://forum.pugski.com/threads/si...nce-vs-return-on-investment.6388/#post-149065 is very interesting. The return on investment when talking about paying someone else to tune edges and your time doing it is an interesting balance.

Not sure if that is the correct link. I noted at Blue Mtn, where I ski ,that just a wax is $10. If I only had 2 skis every couple weeks, I would do that but I have 4 skis and 3 snowboards in the rotation. That's cost prohibitive for me and the edges still need to be maintained. Just eyeing the ROI, I've spent maybe $350 on all tools, wax, p-tex etc. Over the last three years that's OK ROI for me. It takes a lot of time but I am getting faster every time. It's also kinda fun. Cheers

 

[PisteOff]

It really doesn't take that long to do IMHO. If you're skiing more than a single pair of skis and have a wife and/or kid(s) that ski there simply is no way that it's not economical to do even given the "value of your time" argument. It really depends on what is acceptable to you for a ski to be considered "good enough" vs. your time vs. your money. I personally don't mind doing it. I started teaching my son to do it last season. I will finish his training this season. A lot of people tend to "over tune" in my opinion. Unless you really banged an edge up, sharpening is a very quick process.

 

[1chris5]

It really doesn't take that long to do IMHO. If you're skiing more than a single pair of skis and have a wife and/or kid(s) that ski there simply is no way that it's not economical to do even given the "value of your time" argument. It really depends on what is acceptable to you for a ski to be considered "good enough" vs. your time vs. your money. I personally don't mind doing it. I started teaching my son to do it last season. I will finish his training this season. A lot of people tend to "over tune" in my opinion. Unless you really banged an edge up, sharpening is a very quick process.

That's great parenting! I have my son help me also. Today is also a great parenting opportunity as the Eagles are playing. Need to teach 4 for 4 in Philly.

 

[Sibhusky]

Aside from the "cost of my time" (er, retired, so since the money is coming in anyway, I'm not giving up time at work in order to work on my skis, so probably a zero there), just knowing WHAT WAS DONE to my skis and seeing the impact is worth it. Saves me bringing things back and yelling, as well. I'm believe once you leave the skis with the guy, you really have no idea what they are doing, they could be doing what you tell them or ignoring that and doing what they want to do. Yes, there are good tuning guys out there, but is the guy you had the long discussion with the actual guy doing the work? You'd be having to hang around and watch. Which is fine for some things and some times, but as a routine is rarely possible. Just easier to do things myself.

 

[KingGrump]

Not sure if that is the correct link. I noted at Blue Mtn, where I ski ,that just a wax is $10. If I only had 2 skis every couple weeks, I would do that but I have 4 skis and 3 snowboards in the rotation. That's cost prohibitive for me and the edges still need to be maintained. Just eyeing the ROI, I've spent maybe $350 on all tools, wax, p-tex etc. Over the last three years that's OK ROI for me. It takes a lot of time but I am getting faster every time. It's also kinda fun. Cheers

Definitely agree with you with the economic.
What really bothers me is their definition of a hot wax job vs mine.

 

[1chris5]

Definitely agree with you with the economic.
What really bothers me is their definition of a hot wax job vs mine.

I can't comment because I have only prepped our skis have not used Blue. I know they do have one of those fancy Montana machines. As an aside. How do those machines wax with tip protectors. Not sure how the whole process works.