universal wax for budget recreational skiers?

[oldschoolskier]

Hertel FC739 all the way as a base all purpose wax (since I don’t race). I want an all purpose no planning ahead wax set up.

Old school back up, block of beeswax and a hotel bar of soap in pocket to tweak if needed as a dry rub in. Beeswax works in all conditions for a few runs and re-apply, soap good for a 20-40sec run on just below freezing and above days (catches friend off guard when you leave them in the dust).

 

[PisteOff]

As a sidebar...... Everything in skiing starts out "on a budget"......How it ends up is another thing altogether.....

 

[Dave Marshak]

I hot wax before the first day, but after that I only use Swix F4 liquid wax. This year I'll get the new spring liquid as well.
All my friends get much better performance by hot waxing/scraping/rotobrushing every 2 or 3 days, but they all want to borrow my F4 on warm spring days.

dm

 

[cantunamunch]

Hehe, Every time someone mentions F4 I flash back to '92 ish and using it on my P10s

The wax in OP's post looks a lot like old stock (2002-2003ish) Canwax, from that guy up in Vancouver; they had a website for a while but it's all candle wax now. The yellow Canwax had a reputation on Epic for being durable but gummy and hard to scrape. The hard waxes were (allegedly) better.

 

[James]

Dominator Zoom was always a good all temp wax. It's not the cheapest though. Then you get a real cold wax, preferably powder because it's easier, and maybe a real warm one. Swix makes F4 all temp in a bar. I got some from a Sports Authority going out of business. Most of their equipment was really atrocious, but they had some tuning stuff.

If you're looking to go down and dirty cheap and quick, then you'll probably not want to scrape. Use the blue paper towel technique. Though we have experienced some blue towels not conducting heat well. In fact, someone I won't mention trashed a ski of mine. Just to make sure it was dead, and to cover the crime, he conspired with Southwest Airlines. They proceeded to drag the ski bag on the tarmac at high speed I guess. Melted through a vest, ground down and ruined the binding heel. Well I got a $300 voucher for everything. I do miss the vest though.

Usually hydrocarbon wax is the cheapest component of ski tuning.
I don't think one could beat $25 for a pound of decent wax, the quoted above Perl price. That's 453 grams. Dominator Zoom is about $50 for 400gms.

 

[Jacques]

As a sidebar...... Everything in skiing starts out "on a budget"......How it ends up is another thing altogether.....

Ha ha. Today's purchase. This is how it ends up. The BEAST is Dominator Renew & Graphite Zoom in their own label. BEAST & Dominator have a deal.

 

[James]

Jacques, when are you going to get into waxing cross country skis?? Then you could really spend some money.

 

[Nicad]

The local ski shops seem to like Holmenkol Red as an all purpose wax in Southern Ontario.

 

[Philpug]

The local ski shops seem to like Holmenkol Red as an all purpose wax in Southern Ontario.

There are far worse choices, that is a really safe 80% wax.

 

[Jacques]

Jacques, when are you going to get into waxing cross country skis?? Then you could really spend some money.

Ha ha. The 100 grams HF, MF and Race Bullet will last a long time as they are only needed a handful of days, and are always used as a mix with the regular hydrocarbon waxes. I only use the "fancy" stuff when it is actually needed.
Remember if one uses fluoros when not needed the glide will be slower!

 

[Polo]

Remember if one uses fluoros when not needed the glide will be slower!

This is absolutely not true. Fluoros may be less affective in certain types of snow, but it will not make your skis slower.

 

[Muleski]

This is absolutely not true. Fluoros may be less affective in certain types of snow, but it will not make your skis slower.

I've always been told, by people who I think know {wax reps and race techs} that a key problem that younger racers and parent make is using Fluoro waxes when you have low humidity in the snow. In those situations I think {could be wrong} that they fluoro wax increases the dry friction and is quite a bit slower than a basic Hydro wax.

Have done some really non scientific testing with pretty identical speed skis {as close as they could be} and a Hydro wax, vs Flouro. Same brand, same temp range. Right around 35-40% humidity as I recall. The Hydro timed quite a bit faster.

If the hydro does increase formation, I think it would make them slower.

Not a pro at this, BTW.

 

[crgildart]

Another one for slather any economical uni/all wax on everything and run with it for most conditions. Watch the weather though, if it's going to be more than 5F below or above 30F add a layer of more temp specific wax on top of the scraped uni/all wax.

 

[Polo]

I've always been told, by people who I think know {wax reps and race techs} that a key problem that younger racers and parent make is using Fluoro waxes when you have low humidity in the snow. In those situations I think {could be wrong} that they fluoro wax increases the dry friction and is quite a bit slower than a basic Hydro wax.

Have done some really non scientific testing with pretty identical speed skis {as close as they could be} and a Hydro wax, vs Flouro. Same brand, same temp range. Right around 35-40% humidity as I recall. The Hydro timed quite a bit faster.

If the hydro does increase formation, I think it would make them slower.

Not a pro at this, BTW.

I had the opportunity to speak in depth with a group that was doing some extensive testing at Norquay a few years back. They had a section of the Mtn all to themselves and spent days doing nothing but timed inline runs, one after the other, purely for glide purposes. It was miserably cold at the time and the snow was squeaky dry. Of the many different things I asked them about, fluoros and their uses was at the top of my list. When I asked about fluoros making your skis slower in different types of snow, mainly dry low humidity snow, because I'd "heard" this before as well, they all kinda of chuckled and said that is simply not true and that the use of fluorinated wax may be less beneficial when the snow is dry, but it will never make your skis run slower. They also went on to tell me that some amount of fluoro is always a good thing no matter what the snow conditions are.

 

[cantunamunch]

Good advice. Pretty much every wax company has a good hydrocarbon wax that covers a wide snow temp range. It's less expensive per gram when purchased in a "brick". As suggested, do that.

Just as an aside. I know three guys who spent a race season chacing USST nominations and WC starts for the next season. These guys were on a lean budget. Only skiing SL and GS.
I know that one used nothing but Holmenkoll Beta for the entire season. Not a single overlay unless he mooched some once in a while. He made the team.

One of the others used Dominator's "old snow" or "new snow" Zoom, back then. Depending on humidity. All season. I think he won a NorAm title.

Now, granted, this was a number of years ago. Point being that "cheap" hydro wax can be plenty effective, and really effective for most of us.
!

I take your point. I remise: those guys are all really good at finding and skiing the fast line fast. Civilians mostly ski the slow lines, and will encounter slow speed phenomena like sticktion/breakaway, a lot more often.

 

[Muleski]

I take your point. I remise: those guys are all really good at finding and skiing the fast line fast. Civilians mostly ski the slow lines, and will encounter slow speed phenomena like sticktion/breakaway, a lot more often.

Yes, and while those guys were in my tuning room doing their skis, Robi Kristan was in there tuning "his guy's", and using all of his tricks and material. $200 tiny block of some secret flour compound for the start, etc. So, my point was that pretty average wax was "fast enough" to make these guys competitive with similarly skilled skiers, using all of the wax weapons......in certain conditions. In fact, the structure and tune may have make a bigger difference.

As far as most skiers, I've found that almost anybody who has a well tuned, and well structured ski, with wax in it for maybe the first time is just blown away by the improved ski performance including gliding and sliding!

And then some of us just keep skis with the right base, and LOADED with wax. Right? Seems like I know a guy who bought some inexpensive older Stockli Stormriders, and was pleased with the bases and such!

Cheers!

 

[cantunamunch]

And then some of us just keep skis with the right base, and LOADED with wax. Right? Seems like I know a guy who bought some inexpensive older Stockli Stormriders, and was pleased with the bases and such!

Cheers!

At those rates, OP would run out of budget waxing for one person

 

[Muleski]

At those rates, OP would run out of budget waxing for one person

Those skis loved them some Beta. We had two kids who were WELL taken care of by Holmenkoll, and it was Betamix, often and no need to be cheap with it....since it was free. Haha!

Wish I kept that second pair!

Cheers!

 

[Started at 53]

I’m gonna need a list of stuff for a newie water. I have a bench I can use. I would be SKERD to grind bases and sidewalls, but waxing is within my learning curve .

So @Muleski

Give me a list of needed stuff you think I can handle

 

[Muleski]

I had the opportunity to speak in depth with a group that was doing some extensive testing at Norquay a few years back. They had a section of the Mtn all to themselves and spent days doing nothing but timed inline runs, one after the other, purely for glide purposes. It was miserably cold at the time and the snow was squeaky dry. Of the many different things I asked them about, fluoros and their uses was at the top of my list. When I asked about fluoros making your skis slower in different types of snow, mainly dry low humidity snow, because I'd "heard" this before as well, they all kinda of chuckled and said that is simply not true and that the use of fluorinated wax may be less beneficial when the snow is dry, but it will never make your skis run slower. They also went on to tell me that some amount of fluoro is always a good thing no matter what the snow conditions are.

This is my latest. I just texted a friend, who tunes for a living. Used to tech for a kid name Kildow, and tech'd for our daughter for a couple of seasons. I said "Hey. you're making me look bad!"And reminded him of hour testing.

He came back with something about that being when dinosaurs crawled the earth! And he said that yes, ten years ago or so, most low temp flouro waxes had too much fluoro in them and yes, they could run slower than a Hydro. However, "That was ages ago. A low fluro wax in ANY temp range is not going to run slower. May not run faster but never slower. " So I asked if that was true for every wax company. Yes, every one that he's familiar with, to which he chuckled.......as he knows them all.

Then he said the major plus, and the reason that they started making low temp, VERY low fluoro waxes is that the next time they are waxed, the skis will "take" the waxes with slightly more flouro much better than if it was just Hydro that was in the ski. He almost never cleans bases to try to remove fluoro. Says that has been proven to be a waste of time, and time is something that he often has non
So, thanks for me getting the current lesson.

For me, no racing, I'm good with Holmenkoll Hydro wax some GW25 fluoro additive that I almost ever use and Honmenkoll "silicon" in the late spring.

But I stand corrected....2017 info.

Like I say, I learn something here every day.