Build your own diamond "puck" stones

[SlideWright]

Just a quick update bump on the results of this endeavor. I will never go back to using rectangular shaped stones after using pucks. The pucks do exactly what I hoped; they provide much more surface area as a tool when working with the stones and make much more efficient use of the available diamond material since the pucks are so easily rotatable into every possible position.

I believe I initially turned on people here (or was it Epic Ski in 2018?) to the Tools4Boads Pucks when they first came out and used the term 'game changer'. It was met with a cool response and a 'yeah, right' and 'whatever' attitude by members of the forum. It's nice to see one of Rick Weissenborn's many innovations have also grown legs....and now are being 'copied'.

And, FTR, T4B Puck and Hone replacement diamond sheets are available for those landing here and not up to the DIY efforts required. The backing will last a lifetime and you can swap out the diamond paper sheets as often as needed.

Having said that and with a long relationship with Rick & T4B, and as a chronic DIYer, I'm a bit conflicted here. My DIYer side definitely says 'cool' but totally supportive of Rick's designs and efforts....but I found this thread looking for diamond sheet sources other than KGS Swiss & 3M, etc, for a thinner (<5mm) diamond file option for Stones for the Toko base bevel WC guide, and have some questions:

• for the T-rex options, is the velcro loop backing an issue in terms of getting a solid purchase on the aluminum disks. As in is there give and therefore affect accuracy?
• How is the durability of the T-rex option vs KGS sheets, T4B (KGS), or Sorma Moonflex/Swix/Toko diamonds?
• Have anyone tried using a spray adhesive vs super glue so you could replace the diamond sheets easily?
• Toolscity carries velcro hook backing you could adhere to the puck knockoffs & swap the velcro looped backing of the diamond discs & sheets. I'm wondering if that would compound inaccuracy or be worth considering.
• What other ski or SB edge & base applications could these diamond sheets be used for or things like dressing SkiVisions stones & sharpening the planer steel bars?

I've been in contact with TooloCity regarding the T-rex diamond sheets without velcro backing and would need to special order a minimum run which I'll investigate further. In the mean time, I'll order some sheets & disks to test out. With my laser, I expect I could cut the sheets to any size or shape and see if that is true as well.

 

[mdf]

I believe I initially turned on people here (or was it Epic Ski in 2018?) to the Tools4Boads Pucks when they first came out and used the term 'game changer'. It was met with a cool response and a 'yeah, right' and 'whatever' attitude by members of the forum.

Well, I for one bought some from you. I agree they didn't get much traction on the forum.
And unfortunately for your repeat business, they don't wear out as fast as rectangular ones.

 

[SlideWright]

Well, I for one bought some from you. I agree they didn't get much traction on the forum.
And unfortunately for your repeat business, they don't wear out as fast as rectangular ones.

Thanks and that's why I thought they were very durable 'game changers' and still do. How does the alternative diamond papers used on these DIY puck knockoffs compare?

At the moment, it's hard to beat the convenience and dependability Tools4Boards replacement strips or disks, but still worth kicking the idea around a bit.

 

[Dwight]

Thanks and that's why I thought they were very durable 'game changers' and still do. How does the alternative diamond papers used on these DIY puck knockoffs compare?

End of my season, I can ship you one that has been used for 2 seasons. So far it seems to be working great. Though you have more knowledge in this than I do.

I think I tried spray on for my steel ones and it failed for me. Right now I use super glue.

 

[SlideWright]

End of my season, I can ship you one that has been used for 2 seasons. So far it seems to be working great. Though you have more knowledge in this than I do.

I think I tried spray on for my steel ones and it failed for me. Right now I use super glue.

Interesting. Are these the T-rex disks? Did you clean and rough up the steel disks first? The T4B Pucks have a bit of a textured finish and adhere well. I've used 3M spray adhesives on rubber padding for vises that is working well.

 

[Noodler]

I used silicone adhesive and clamped the pucks overnight to dry. The diamond paper peels off with some coaxing.

 

[Dwight]

Interesting. Are these the T-rex disks? Did you clean and rough up the steel disks first? The T4B Pucks have a bit of a textured finish and adhere well. I've used 3M spray adhesives on rubber padding for vises that is working well.

Yes, I used https://www.toolocity.com/2t-rex-electroplated-diamond-pads.aspx for my current ones. I used something else for the steel ones.
120 grit

400 grit

 

[Scruffy]

• for the T-rex options, is the velcro loop backing an issue in terms of getting a solid purchase on the aluminum disks. As in is there give and therefore affect accuracy?
• How is the durability of the T-rex option vs KGS sheets, T4B (KGS), or Sorma Moonflex/Swix/Toko diamonds?
• Have anyone tried using a spray adhesive vs super glue so you could replace the diamond sheets easily?
• Toolscity carries velcro hook backing you could adhere to the puck knockoffs & swap the velcro looped backing of the diamond discs & sheets. I'm wondering if that would compound inaccuracy or be worth considering.
• What other ski or SB edge & base applications could these diamond sheets be used for or things like dressing SkiVisions stones & sharpening the planer steel bars?

I've been in contact with TooloCity regarding the T-rex diamond sheets without velcro backing and would need to special order a minimum run which I'll investigate further. In the mean time, I'll order some sheets & disks to test out. With my laser, I expect I could cut the sheets to any size or shape and see if that is true as well.

I'll answer a few questions.

I used an 1/8-inch acrylic discs ( see post #54 ). I used gorilla super glue and clamped the T-rex sheet round to the disc tightly. Once the glue dries, there is no give or movement from the velcro backing; it's now solid, so I found no accuracy issues.

Durability compared to Moonflex? I'd say, same or better, but it's only been a little over a year since I made the pucks. I tune a lot of skis, but didn't keep records for comparison.

I believe if you used the velcro hook backing you'd have movement between the T-rex sheet and the hook sheet, but I haven't tried it. I personally wasn't worried about replacing the sheets easily. I figured I'd glue it tight so there wouldn't be movement, and if I need to replace the T-rex sheet, I'll see if I can scrape it off, or glue another sheet to the other side of the disc and at least get two applications out of one acrylic disc. It would still be more cost effective that the Moonstones. If I got to a point where I needed to replace the T-rex sheets often, I'd reevaluate things then, but so far they are holding up like champ.

 

[SlideWright]

I'll answer a few questions.<snip>

Durability compared to Moonflex? I'd say, same or better, but it's only been a little over a year since I made the pucks. I tune a lot of skis, but didn't keep records for comparison.<snip>

Thanks all!

Do you guys use 600 grit at all?

I'm thinking after prototyping with 80mm strips I have in stock, that I will get various grits coming. The prototyping is encouraging and I'm banking on these diamonds being every bit as good as the Moonflex, Swix, Toko, etc diamonds...and a better value.

Since the minimum I need to get is fairly substantial, I ought to have plenty around. So, since you'll be doing this anyway, hit me up if you need laser cut disks without velcro backing.

 

[Dwight]

I started using 600 and 1000 grit this year. Normal don't stone on skis I like.

 

[SlideWright]

Does anyone know what type of adhesive is used on PSA sandpaper sheets & disks that allow for easy application, removal, but stay on reliably? And what 'paper' is used for peeling off much like printing labels?

I'm currently going down the adhesive rabbit hole to find a good option to assimilate a PSA approach to the diamond strips due tomorrow to put on these guys:

I have some 3M Heavy Duty 20 spray adhesive that works great, but probably overkill for these. Plus the spraying force will probably send the strips flying and there will be tons of overspray. I'm thinking that something that can be brushed on will be the call. It'll be tedious, but manageable. The silicone adhesives seem too thick for brushing on easily. Screeding with a scraper may work. Any thoughts would be appreciated?

Thanks to comments here, I'm very curious about the 60 grit (dubbed U-C for Ultra Coarse) for sidewall removal, possibly replacing a fine file for edge geometry & faster chewed up edge cleanup & deburring......and maybe even base flattening & structuring. I also made a 5° guide shim for sidewall removal and will make other angled shims.

 

[cantunamunch]

I would have tried 3M 72 but I imagine you're well along now.

 

[SlideWright]

Thanks. I’ll add it to my growing options. They just shipped today. Mad science this weekend maybe.

 

[SlideWright]

I would have tried 3M 72 but I imagine you're well along now.

The old can of 3M 20 Heavy Duty spooged the spray, but it is a bomber option. I'll look for the 72. Sidewall back filing test forthcoming.

This diamond paper backing and the diamonds themselves seem more robust than other strips I've used. Very encouraging.

How do you cut these clean other than destroying razor blades, scoring the backs and breaking the fronts roughly? We'll see how the laser works too.

 

[James]

The old can of 3M 20 Heavy Duty spooged the spray, but it is a bomber option. I'll look for the 72. Sidewall back filing test forthcoming.

This diamond paper backing and the diamonds themselves seem more robust than other strips I've used. Very encouraging.

How do you cut these clean other than destroying razor blades, scoring the backs and breaking the fronts roughly? We'll see how the laser works too.


View attachment 230388

Where are the strips from?

PSA tuna is talking about-

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

 

[SlideWright]

Where are the strips from?

PSA tuna is talking about-

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

Thanks. I was referring to seeing about getting some up locally before ordering. I like the blue color. No shear strength shown for the 72 nor 20 so far to compare. The 3M 20 has been bonded my rubber vise tops for over ten years and still going strong.

Strips were custom ordered from toolcity.com with no velcro backing. $200 minimum. They do have PSA velcro rolls too.

 

[mdf]

@SlideWright , when you get it all figured out are you going to be adding in-house product to your catalog?

 

[SlideWright]

@SlideWright , when you get it all figured out are you going to be adding in-house product to your catalog?

That's the plan. I'm basically there for the 22mm x 120mm diamond files (120x, 200x, 400x & 600x). Maybe 60mm lengths too. I have to cut the 60x sheets I got. If the laser works as I hope, other shapes and sizes are options. These, coupled with new compact edge tuners & sidewall cutters & sanders.

 

[Swiss Toni]

KGS Diamond, the company that made the diamond sheets you bought from Toolcity also makes flexible diamond sheets with a self-adhesive (SA) backing, surely it would be better to use those rather than applying the adhesive yourself https://www.kgs.swiss/sitebeheer/product_pdf/Leaflet sheets catalogue page.pdf They have a US sales office which should be able to supply further details.

SORMA S.p.a., the Italian company that makes the Moonflex diamond stones also sells self-adhesive diamond sheets see page 20 in their Metal 2023 catalog http://www.sorma.net/en/diamond-tools they say you can cut the diamond sheets with scissors.

The Italian grinding wheel manufacturer Diabor S.r.l. has started selling resin bonded diamond stones https://www.diabor.it/en/categoria-prodotto/manual-tuning-stones/ these will last a lot longer than the diamond sandpaper stones. There’s a guy in the US that makes resin bonded diamond stones for sharpening knives https://cgsw.us/ might be something to look into.

 

[SlideWright]

KGS Diamond, the company that made the diamond sheets you bought from Toolcity also makes flexible diamond sheets with a self-adhesive (SA) backing, surely it would be better to use those rather than applying the adhesive yourself https://www.kgs.swiss/sitebeheer/product_pdf/Leaflet sheets catalogue page.pdf They have a US sales office which should be able to supply further details.

SORMA S.p.a., the Italian company that makes the Moonflex diamond stones also sells self-adhesive diamond sheets see page 20 in their Metal 2023 catalog http://www.sorma.net/en/diamond-tools they say you can cut the diamond sheets with scissors.

The Italian grinding wheel manufacturer Diabor S.r.l. has started selling resin bonded diamond stones https://www.diabor.it/en/categoria-prodotto/manual-tuning-stones/ these will last a lot longer than the diamond sandpaper stones. There’s a guy in the US that makes resin bonded diamond stones for sharpening knives https://cgsw.us/ might be something to look into.

Thanks for those links and info. I looked into the KGS as my original thought, but decided to go with the toolcity option for now because they offered to cut the kgs diamond sheets to size. I’ll revisit the kgs and other options.

The 60x is a bad boy and liking that for aggressive cutting. The backing is tough and the laser cutting will take a bit.