So much for overcrowding due to Ikon pass.

[crgildart]

Remote work also makes road trips way more doable. You can be logged in to your company workspaces while driving across the country and just pull off the highway and park somewhere for an hour here and there to tend to job related duties that go beyond a phone conversation while driving. It's not just being able to work at the resort that makes recreational trips way more feasible and frequent.

 

[dbostedo]

I've had my theories on WFH and I believe it absolutely does impact skiing.

Well at this point I think we're rehashing a bunch of older threads, but FWIW, that little "25% Colorado" under my avatar is only there due to the ability to work remotely some of the time.

Texting with my CO friends about it when I bought the place, someone mentioned the short-term rental and housing cost issues out there... my reply was "I'm part of the problem! "

 

[Andy Mink]

Well at this point I think we're rehashing a bunch of older threads, but FWIW, that little "25% Colorado" under my avatar is only there due to the ability to work remotely some of the time.

Texting with my CO friends about it when I bought the place, someone mentioned the short-term rental and housing cost issues out there... my reply was "I'm part of the problem! "

Yeah, just that one problem!

 

[4aprice]

The stat I'd like to see is how many people use all, or even 50%, of their IKON days at any given area. I get 7 at Snowbasin and have used one. I'm up to 2 or 3 at DV but will likely get a few more. None at Big Sky, JHMR, or others. So out of the 280 days I COULD ski at 41 IKON partner areas I've so far used less than 5.

I'm not saying IKON is not a contributor to more crowds but I don't think it's fair to lay it all on IKON (or Epic).

I don't think I've ever used my compliment of days anywhere since Ikon or Maxx Pass before that came out. Most was probably 6 of 7 at Aspen on one trip. Though hopefully if Arapahoe keeps Ikon limited (and I hope they do) I could see using them all some future spring. Your right about some Alterra mountains using the Ikon as their season pass, Winter Park Co is one.

But I do want to say that I do have empathy for some of the complaining. Look I'm a huge fan of the mega passes and yes I use them to my advantage, but I do feel in certain cases there could be reasonable tweaks to them. I mean some have complained about safety issues and those are valid complaints. I know we had a pretty slow roll out of trails here in the east and there was very limited real estate to ski on during the holidays and even through MLK weekend. I know there are some areas limiting capacity, NY state is doing that at Belleayre, I think many of these mega pass areas should do that too. I don't know if its a fair comparison but I kind of look at it like a arena or stadium where you can't always get a seat. The reservation systems I've used have seemed to work well they had plenty of time to practice with the pandemic (and 2 seasons after it as well).

BTW Andy (and you'll be amused by this) your old haunt went on Ikon this season. Gotta to be honest haven't seen that much difference. The parking lots were as full before Ikon as they are now (pay lots BTW).

 

[skiki]

Interestingly, my doctor said this exact thing last week. She said she is considering dropping her Ikon pass next year because she felt forced to ski too many days last season. They have a house in Mammoth .

Forced to ski? Huh? I don't see how a pass can be seen to force additional ski time, only enable it. It might drive up the cost per day for the pass if you don't ski a lot, but with window prices as high as they are, it doesn't take too many days to reach break even.

 

[stevo]

I was wrong the video also quotes only vail’s revenue but here it is, it’s an interesting video on the topic and I think pretty even keeled:

 

[SBrown]

There are 90 million more people in the US than there were in 1990, but there was not a commensurate growth in ski acreage. (Even using the word commensurate makes me laugh.)

 

[Jerez]

I was "Forced" to ski Winter Park Presidents weekend because the grandkid came out on the school holiday.

I can report that, other than the morning stampede for the gondola or the SuperGuage (both of which we avoided) the longest wait for a chair was maybe 5 minutes and the norm was much less. Much less waiting than I recall from when we skied with their parent during holidays back in the day.

Much less of a nightmare and less crowded on the slopes than little out-of-the-way Santa Fe on a holiday weekend for that matter.

 

[AmyPJ]

Didn’t see anyone bring up the drawbridge mentality. Only thing I bring up is that the passes are too cheap. And short lift lines in the days of high-capacity fast lifts are not an indicator of how packed the mountain is.

 

[stevo]

Plus some here are still glossing over the fact that many consumers have been coerced into skiing more days then they probably would otherwise...or trying to in order to get their money's worth. I don't really view that as keeping the "bridge open", I view that as saying you can only cross the bridge if you pay for 10 days in advance.

If you want a truly "open bridge", they can keep the price down by lowering the price of day passes by a factor of 60% or more...how's that for keeping the bridge open!? Then charge more for a season multi-mountain pass that more closely matches typical season pass pricing for those people that are going to ski 10-20 days on it...it still makes sense for them.

They aren't going to do that though, they are making too much money this way and passing the weather risk entirely onto the consumer.

There is one group of people that do benefit from Ikon, some have expressed their views here, but the folks that actually do plan to ski more than 10 days a year on their Ikon pass and enjoy going to different mountains, well its a deal from heaven for them, how nice their skiing is cheaper then ever.

 

[Jerez]

That's the key. The passes are cheaper in return for assuming the "weather risk." Seems fair. Reduces risk for the ski area and evens out income while giving the loyal skier a good deal in price.

 

[stevo]

but they aren't cheaper if you are a 5 day a year skier.

and I will repeat. ikon passes should match season pass pricing, which these days is typically north of $1500. Season passes have always passed weather risk onto the consumer.

 

[Tricia]

but they aren't cheaper if you are a 5 day a year skier.

and I will repeat. ikon passes should match season pass pricing, which these days is typically north of $1500. Season passes have always passed weather risk onto the consumer.

And yet in another thread (or maybe earlier in this one) someone complained about the increase in IKON rates for the full pass over the past two years.
This may be why so many people started buying the Base IKON which blackouts holidays.

 

[stevo]

Obviously everyone wants everything to be cheaper. there is no free lunch. The people that struggle to ski 10 days a season would prefer something that is around $500. That is how much they actually know for sure they can and will ski. Actually the best option for them would be $500 and then a discounted rate for extra days so that they don't get gouged by the industry's obscene daily pass rates. There is a reason nearly every season pass includes perks to get 50% off day pass rates at almost everywhere possible, because the normal day pass rates are a complete facade.

On the other hand, the people that want to ski 10-20 days on a full ikon pass should really pay about what everyone else pays for a normal season pass. Matter of fact it could be justified that if anything the price should be even HIGHER than a typical season pass because of all the extra flexibility to go to different resorts and the fact that Ikon is taking out a percentage of it before paying the ski resorts, etc.

 

[Jim Kenney]

I guess I should apologize for enjoying the heck out of my $299 Ikon Base Pass.

 

[SBrown]

The other thing that a lot of people don't think about is that season passes were not a common thing before 20 yr ago, because they were really really expensive! And it only made sense if you lived in an area where there was little competition and you didn't want to restrict yourself to one area. ie, Summit/Vail was a terrible place for spending $1200 in 1980s money when you could find day tickets less than $30. It really was a huge thing when Winter Park (pretty sure they were the first) dropped the prices so much. Then we all got accustomed to cheap passes. My children have no idea that there is even a way to ski without a season pass. But, just like 2.8% mortgage rates, $200 season passes weren't going to last.

 

[stevo]

yea I could not dream of having a season pass until I was well into my adult years and actually it used to be more valuable to earn it by instructing..hehe.

 

[crosscountry]

Well at this point I think we're rehashing a bunch of older threads, but FWIW, that little "25% Colorado" under my avatar is only there due to the ability to work remotely some of the time.

Texting with my CO friends about it when I bought the place, someone mentioned the short-term rental and housing cost issues out there... my reply was "I'm part of the problem! "

I’m also “part of the problem”. Except I’ve been one for far longer than the mega-passes.

Although I Iive in the east, yet looong before IKON, I’ve had a pass to ski 10-20 days in Colorado. That’s not 25%, that’s more like 50 or 75% for me! (I got spoiled skiing in Colorado that I end up ski less in the east).

Long before IKON, there’s the Rockie Mountain Super Pass+. It basically was IKON for Colorado only. I had that for many years. And I also had Vail’s Epic pass for a couple years in between those too.

Until the pandemic and the WFH craze, I’ve been going out to Colorado year after year after year! So, I’m part of the “problem”. But ”the problem” had been there for well over 10 years. Well before the word “mega pass” was invented.

You know what? The RMSP was even cheaper than IKON base. Even back then, with lift ticket well under $100/day, the pass still paid for itself in a week of ski vacation! Why weren’t the herds from the east doing it? I don’t know. Why weren’t the Colorado locals complain about it? (Or if they did back then, I didn’t hear any of it)

Do I like the mega passes? Sure, I like the ability to ski even beyond Colorado. I dislike the crowds as much as anyone else. Except I’m not sure it’s solely the mega passes that brought the crowds there. (I was there, weren’t I?)

 

[PinnacleJim]

Yes Winter Park started the cheap passes with the Buddy Pass. Get 3 buddies to join you and you each got a pass for $199. Then Vail responded with passes for it's Colorado resorts and it was off to the races.

 

[Jwrags]

One could argue that unless you make the Ikon or Epic $2-3,000 and truly drive people out that raising it some will make it worse. It has been speculated that people might ski more days to feel like they are “getting their money’s worth”. How many more days will they ski if the price is jacked up $3-400?