That’s a great point. it always seems like it’s only going to shorten the life of the planer blades forcing use on the tips and tails. Backfilling and sanding tips and tails will be the call for me going forward. Thanks!
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How much material does an edge grinder remove?
- Thread starter Dave Marshak
- Start date
Darn you, now I need this!!BEAST Pocket Plane — BEAST Tuning
www.beasttuning.com
This is what I use. SlideWrights prototypes up thread looks similar in function.
The fit and finish on the Beat pocket plane is pretty rough. The panzer file that came with it was vert small. Cleaned it up and gave it to my son.
I use a SVST 3° side edge guide together a SVST 3° shim. A 100 mm Panzer file secured with a small spring clamp. Feels a lot better in the hand.
My set up.
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I’ve taken to using gloves when working the top sheet/sidewall junction and doing other shaping. Just got tired of little pieces of fiberglass or too sheet or aluminum stuck in my hands. However at least half the time I just start without or don’t bother till it’s too late and I’ve got sharp bits sticking in.
Yeah I’ll say. It’s a turd. I like the Beast Pro though.
Thread Starter
TS
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That's 4 separate pieces. I something that holds the file securely. By the time you put all those pieces this back in the tool box:
It's easy to shim that up to 7 degrees, and it's easy to hold in your hand too.
dm
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TS
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QFT
Around here the local race programs are requiring kids to kevlar gloves when they tune skis. Apparently there's been a lot more bloody injuries since they all got Razor Tunes.
If you rest your knuckle on an edge when you're working any tool along the length of it you will never forget to wear gloves again. Ask me how I know.
dm
If one likes a detuned tip and tail, can they just skip the step where they have to remove and blend the top sheet at the tips and tails? And then NOT run a file or Razor Tune over that tip and tail area (where a sidewall planer cannot remove material)?
Or is that not the same as doing a proper topsheet removal and blending, then running a file/Razor Tune tip to tail, then detune tips and tails with gummy?
Or is that not the same as doing a proper topsheet removal and blending, then running a file/Razor Tune tip to tail, then detune tips and tails with gummy?
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Thread Starter
TS
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[QUOTE="MikeHunt, post: 974833, member: 8603"
If one likes a detuned tip and tail, can they just skip the step where they have to remove and blend the top sheet at the tips and tails? And then NOT run a file or Razor Tune over that tip and tail area (where a sidewall planer cannot remove material)?
Or is that not the same as doing a proper topsheet removal and blending, then running a file/Razor Tune tip to tail, then detune tips and tails with gummy?
[/QUOTE]
You detune from the base side. The old school way was to dull the edge. Now some people will add a little base angle at the tip and tail.
FWIW I don’t usually detune at all unless they get too grabby, which they never do. I couldn’t even tell you if my skis were detuned out of the box because I can’t measure the base angle accurately. YMMV
dm
If one likes a detuned tip and tail, can they just skip the step where they have to remove and blend the top sheet at the tips and tails? And then NOT run a file or Razor Tune over that tip and tail area (where a sidewall planer cannot remove material)?
Or is that not the same as doing a proper topsheet removal and blending, then running a file/Razor Tune tip to tail, then detune tips and tails with gummy?
[/QUOTE]
You detune from the base side. The old school way was to dull the edge. Now some people will add a little base angle at the tip and tail.
FWIW I don’t usually detune at all unless they get too grabby, which they never do. I couldn’t even tell you if my skis were detuned out of the box because I can’t measure the base angle accurately. YMMV
dm
Except that these are not accurate. They develop play in the mechanism that adjusts the angles over time. Use a digital angle gauge and measure the actual angles that this guide sets. Switch back and forth and re-measure. I guarantee you will see that this is not a great tool. Of course it depends on just how OCD you are about the absolute value of the angle, but for me, I want repeatable consistent results. So no multi-tools for me.
For those that aren't aware base bevel does what detuning did years ago, don't mix up the terms detune and deburr (which is a still a valid when required) as it is a completely different operation (see some older heated threads on this).
Thread Starter
TS
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Really? You think when you’re scraping back the side wall that the precise angle is critical? You really are OCD.
dm
If you are detuning the tips and tails, you are not skiing the entire ski.
Many will say the ski is grabby without the detuning. My take on that is more along the line of skillset deficiency.
I love the posts on accuracy which generally show how little people understand how its achieved.
I have very expensive tooling, machines and measuring instruments to do exactly what measurements are being thrown around.
I have a tool room 500lbs 2ft x 3ft x 5" black granite surface plate for set ups (about $2000-3000) I'm happy to get 0.0002 setups (why because at best my machines can do is maybe 0.0005 on a good day more likely in the real world closer to +/- 0.0025). It is important to understand what an how result can be achieved accurately. Most mistake repeatability with precision.
Getting into higher precision requires better controlled conditions ie temperature being a big factor, you can easily see a 0.0005 to 0.010 difference as material just caused by temperature added during cuts. This cost serious money. My small shop has well in to the 6 figure tooling and few machines, with tooling being the highest cost.
As a result even with OCD I use a multi tool for both base and side it is how you do the changes and handle the tool that keeps the repeatability. If a dedicate tool works for you great, if a multi-tool works great. All that matters is do they give you the results required.
I have very expensive tooling, machines and measuring instruments to do exactly what measurements are being thrown around.
I have a tool room 500lbs 2ft x 3ft x 5" black granite surface plate for set ups (about $2000-3000) I'm happy to get 0.0002 setups (why because at best my machines can do is maybe 0.0005 on a good day more likely in the real world closer to +/- 0.0025). It is important to understand what an how result can be achieved accurately. Most mistake repeatability with precision.
Getting into higher precision requires better controlled conditions ie temperature being a big factor, you can easily see a 0.0005 to 0.010 difference as material just caused by temperature added during cuts. This cost serious money. My small shop has well in to the 6 figure tooling and few machines, with tooling being the highest cost.
As a result even with OCD I use a multi tool for both base and side it is how you do the changes and handle the tool that keeps the repeatability. If a dedicate tool works for you great, if a multi-tool works great. All that matters is do they give you the results required.
To learn a bit of how material is removed get the Sharpening by Hand (woodworkers resource) Catalog from Lee Valley Tools (free). It does give some very good insight.
Regarding over the top accuracy expectations which I believe adds to peoples anxiety and reluctance to take on maintaining their own skis & snowboards:
"We aren't building no stinkin' pi-anos."
In other words, we are not all machinists, finish carpenters or luthiers. The minor variability on the ski tuning is nothing compared to the what we ski on. Even in 2d snow. For 3d snow accuracy is meaningless. Don't sweat the small stuff and be practical, not obsessive and have fun. It's rewarding in many ways, including better gear performance.
That fact you do anything is in the plus column vs nothing. Go ski and have fun on decently maintained gear. They last longer and you'll learn to tweak things as you go over time and can figure out a workflow that fits you. You can always make it more complicated than it needs to be later.
"We aren't building no stinkin' pi-anos."
In other words, we are not all machinists, finish carpenters or luthiers. The minor variability on the ski tuning is nothing compared to the what we ski on. Even in 2d snow. For 3d snow accuracy is meaningless. Don't sweat the small stuff and be practical, not obsessive and have fun. It's rewarding in many ways, including better gear performance.
That fact you do anything is in the plus column vs nothing. Go ski and have fun on decently maintained gear. They last longer and you'll learn to tweak things as you go over time and can figure out a workflow that fits you. You can always make it more complicated than it needs to be later.
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I've never 'loved' back filing with a radial/panzer or coarse file for back filing, but it works and is practical. I would always sand afterwards for a better finish. The slidewall planer is sweet and as @KingGrump said, backfiling near tips and tails is better.
So....as an in between and more user friendly option, I'm leaning heavily towards profile sanding the sidewalls. Any kind or grit or flavor of sandpaper (silicone carbide for plastic, aluminum oxide for metal, diamond paper, etc) could be used and this could be used on any side edge beveler. Like profile sanders, these could take on any shape.
The drywall sheet shown here works well too:
Very nice profile sander (looks like a prototype that is 3D printed).
I just got the FKS sidewall planer pictured above.
my old tool had easy adjustability both vertically and horizontally.
The FKS has obviously easy vertical adjustability, but I find the horizontal adjustability tedious and not precise.
What am I missing?
my old tool had easy adjustability both vertically and horizontally.
The FKS has obviously easy vertical adjustability, but I find the horizontal adjustability tedious and not precise.
What am I missing?
