Base flattening / grind on new skis

[altabrig]

It also might be cured with detuning the tips and tails. Bring a stone with you skiing. After tearing my ACL with a tip grabbing a submerged log in a compression, the first thing I do on skis with edges wrapping around tips and tails is to round them to the contact point (see red marks below), then gradually detune if I feel the need.


Not for the feint of heart:


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Thanks. I have done some serious detuning with a bastard file before. I did hit the tips and tails with a stone I hade in my pocket. I think the over agressive tune may have been a factor. They don't lack for grip, but the effective edge and the taper are different animals compared to a camber or early rise/camber ski.

 

[cantunamunch]

It also might be cured with detuning the tips and tails. Bring a stone with you skiing. After tearing my ACL with a tip grabbing a submerged log in a compression, the first thing I do on skis with edges wrapping around tips and tails is to round them to the contact point (see red marks below), then gradually detune if I feel the need.


Not for the feint of heart:

You use the word 'gradually'. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[SlideWright]

You use the word 'gradually'. I do not think it means what you think it means.

It's all relative.

 

[altabrig]

I could not get a .038mm feeler under my trubar. I think it's the light bleed in the lime base as seen in the photos that gave a false concavity.

So it's not railled, but a combo of user error of pushing big rockered tips in and out of turns and not giving those same yood and tails the detune they need.

 

[SlideWright]

I have not heard of this before where one Atlas is railed and the other base high after a grind. How is this possible? I've heard both being one way or the other, but not both different.

My sister, an instructor, has a friend with a shop (who mostly deals with BC skis, I guess) that apparently got a new machine and really wanted her input on the results. She relented and said she 'almost died' on her first run where the 'skis had a mind of their own'. She's a solid skier and said she had to leave her class to swap skis. As you'd imagine it was quite a struggle and she's very sore from the fight. I think she brought them back and they still suck.

So I'm preparing a 'care package' to bring over tomorrow which will include a Ski Visions Base Flattener planer and a Ski Visions File (high edge) Flattener with an arsenal of files, along with a structure disk and various sand paper grits.

She has not had a grind in 5 years and her go to was bought out. She now trusts no one to touch her skis. She hand tunes and waxes her own and surprised me by saying few instructors do.

 

[altabrig]

Was the base bevel too great an angle? Or was.the base off. I don't understand the operator error factor involved.with such a capital investment. Sounds horrid.

I had good grind, structure, and edge set from the mill creek level 9 before covid on three pairs of skis on a Montana and they got the angles right.

Last time I will have edges done though cause I like doing them.

The local new Wintersteiger machine and tech wouldn't even get through the old structure for me and told me it was better not to and leave some of the old structure. The machine is top of the line, but I am not going to give them my business after that.

 

[cantunamunch]

I have not heard of this before where one Atlas is railed and the other base high after a grind. How is this possible? I've heard both being one way or the other, but not both different.

My sister, an instructor, has a friend with a shop (who mostly deals with BC skis, I guess) that apparently got a new machine and really wanted her input on the results. She relented and said she 'almost died' on her first run where the 'skis had a mind of their own'. She's a solid skier and said she had to leave her class to swap skis. As you'd imagine it was quite a struggle and she's very sore from the fight. I think she brought them back and they still suck.

High grind pressure and a bad core/edge tie layer (the filling beneath the base and core?)

Sorry, every scenario I picture involves relatively mismatched skis and relatively aggressive machine work. No operator *error*, just an aggressive grind.

 

[SlideWright]

The skis are a year old and I know she loved the way they carved, were her 'go to' skis for teaching and free skiing. I'm not sure what prompted 'the need' to get a grind other than possible peer pressure & trying to be helpful for a friend.

Interesting take that it's the skis not operator/machine. I can't imagine the routed 'Vibe-Stop' channels in the wood core could affect this, but who knows at this point. I'm not clear as to how much of a difference we are talking about here, either. I think she said it was just under the feet per a friend with a true bar.

 

[cantunamunch]

I think she said it was just under the feet per a friend with a true bar.

Binding bridge issue?

 

[SlideWright]

Could be. I hope to see them this evening. I'm wondering if the 'railed issue' could be a burr issue based on the 'Railed Skis?' thread's discussion. (I'm cross posting this since it is related.)

 

[mdf]

I think it's the light bleed in the lime base as seen in the photos that gave a false concavity.

Yeah, I've had a lot of trouble interpreting a true bar on bases that are translucent.

 

[SlideWright]

Could be. I hope to see them this evening. I'm wondering if the 'railed issue' could be a burr issue based on the 'Railed Skis?' thread's discussion. (I'm cross posting this since it is related.)

FWIW, it was inconclusive per a true bar on the skis since the high edge and any base high areas were no longer an issue. The bases looked ‘reasonable flat‘ and decent structure. Best guess was high edges in one area, variable base bevels and variable edge sharpness.

It’d be one for limited space tuning where I used chair backs for checking with a true bar and limited base beveling/measuring. The crook of my lap to hold the ski tails while I planed side walls and diamond filed the side edges. You don’t need no stinking bench nor vises. We’ll see what the first test drive indicates.

Hopefully, the storm hits the next couple days and it won’t matter.

 

[James]

Yeah, I've had a lot of trouble interpreting a true bar on bases that are translucent.

Tried the Fischer yellow?
Bruce Springsteen wrote that song, “Blinded by the Light” about that. He had to wear an eye shield for days.

 

[cantunamunch]

Yeah, I've had a lot of trouble interpreting a true bar on bases that are translucent.

I am currently playing with black PVC tape to see if there is any way to use it in combination with a true bar that makes sense on both a through light level and a feeler gauge level.

 

[SlideWright]

I am currently playing with black PVC tape to see if there is any way to use it in combination with a true bar that makes sense on both a through light level and a feeler gauge level.

Has anyone tried a profile gauge for this? You could transfer the shape to compare to a straight line, true bar or graph paper and trace the profile to record if you wanted. Then compare later if you made adjustments. Then there’s lasers…..

 

[James]

^Like the Surefoot method for feet only way more points.

 

[Noodler]

Has anyone tried a profile gauge for this? You could transfer the shape to compare to a straight line, true bar or graph paper and trace the profile to record if you wanted. Then compare later if you made adjustments. Then there’s lasers…..

Very cool. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this. Source?

 

[cantunamunch]

Very cool. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this. Source?

Not sure if serious - contour gauges are available at most tiling/ diy shops.

 

[James]

Or woodworking supply places. They come in plastic too.

 

[SlideWright]

^Like the Surefoot method for feet only way more points.

I f was thinking of trying this for a footbed project tool. I think it could also be useful to measure ramp angles by making profiles along the a ski, binding & boots.

Very cool. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this. Source?

It's an old school finish carpentry staple. I think the stainless steel wire ones would be better that the newer plastic ones for bases, but not sure.