Article on Crowding on Slopes

[James]

How many sleds really come out of the woods?

Well we’re not sure how many the bears keep for sleeping in.

 

[Guy in Shorts]

However, even on uncrowded weekdays, I regularly experience a group of skiers dropping in above me and zipping past me on both sides at high speed. Are they competent skiers- sure usually, but is anyone in control once they catch an edge and end up sliding down? My point is that those groups leave me nowhere to go.

Nice quiet Tuesday at Killington today. Our group of 15 locals had 10 guys and 5 women all over 40. We ski fast and in control. Pass hundreds of slower skiers as we cruise around the mountain. I do the same high level group skiing when hanging out with Skitalkers. Are we just as bad as the young male meat missiles? I don't have a good answer other than let us pass and enjoy the open skiing window that follows in our wake.

 

[dan ross]

. For me, I find plenty of space on Stratton's non-holiday weekends when the mountain is mostly open. I do not ever ski Stratton during holiday periods.

This has been true for as long as I can remember-(70’s) same at Mt.Snow and Bromley. I can only assume it’s gotten worse lately.

 

[Frenchman]

For every pass sold (usually at a student discount) to a young male, who we know are the worst offenders, how many other passes AREN’T sold to someone who would pay full pop? Never mind the costs associated with maintaining terrain parks. I’m not sure the demographic the resorts are trying to appeal to are really the core of where the money is.

They probably figure out that those younger people will buy passes for more years than the other aging population.

One of the striking things of the US vs Europe ski areas is how old the lifts are, how slow they are, and how little of them there is. That definitely contributes to some of the things people complain about (long lines). Terrain is also limited. Whistler-Blackcomb is a rather small area by non-NA standards.

 

[dan ross]

You can’t blame it on teenagers. Some of the worst offenders in the East are guys 40+.

This is same as driving in L.A. -guys in their 40’s.
Audis and Teslas. It’s a certain sense of entitlement and/or rules are for other people.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

Nice quiet Tuesday at Killington today. Our group of 15 locals had 10 guys and 5 women all over 40. We ski fast and in control. Pass hundreds of slower skiers as we cruise around the mountain. I do the same high level group skiing when hanging out with Skitalkers. Are we just as bad as the young male meat missiles? I don't have a good answer other than let us pass and enjoy the open skiing window that follows in our wake.

I’m not that slow and I rarely ski the center. I would pull over and wait given the opportunity. 15 people? Pick a damn side! Even the meat missiles pick a side! Why do you need to surround somebody? Do you lack the skills required to space yourselves out?

 

[KingGrump]

Stratton has always been extremely crowded imo, I would never go there on a weekend after making the mistake of doing so way before Ikon. Perhaps the contrast is more stark at Sunday River where it wasn’t already overrun to the same degree until last season and this season.

Crowding means to me that there are literally huge masses of bodies moving down trails together.. like the commercial where there are a comical number of people all on a trail together. Except it’s not tv and it’s not funny in real life. It’s dangerous and scary.. and I’m far from the only person who feels that way and has regularly skied at the mountain for many years. It’s very different now. And yes obviously low terrain doesn’t help.. but why is it so crazy then to say that you regulate capacity with reservations for Ikon and day passes?? And dial it up and down as terrain allows. I own property on the mountain, it isn’t simply go find somewhere else to ski.. and really why the heck should people be told to find somewhere else when they have been there for years and there are genuine safety concerns for everyone happening? Why is that the answer versus the mountains being put to accountability for running a safe operation?

Stratton has been home since the '70's. The crowds come and go. Really bad in the early '80s. Much better in the '90s after numerous lift upgrades and expansion.
Move home base to Killington around 2005 after taking ASC up on their cheap pass offer.

Haven't skied the NE during Xmas holiday week since 2013 when my son went off to college. This season, s**t happened and we had to ski the holiday week to dial in our new boots before heading west. Crowd level was very good. Very surprised.

 

[Guy in Shorts]

I’m not that slow and I rarely ski the center. I would pull over and wait given the opportunity. 15 people? Pick a damn side! Even the meat missiles pick a side! Why do you need to surround somebody? Do you lack the skills required to space yourselves out?

Love to ski in the box as I call it. Ski in sync and rhythm of the person in front of you. Close enough so you can talk to you friends as you move down the hill. Spacing out is never our goal when enjoying some tourist free mid week days.

Here is a shot of the box that I ski in. Everyone in the photo is in our group.

 

[x10003q]

Stratton has always been extremely crowded imo, I would never go there on a weekend after making the mistake of doing so way before Ikon. Perhaps the contrast is more stark at Sunday River where it wasn’t already overrun to the same degree until last season and this season.

Crowding means to me that there are literally huge masses of bodies moving down trails together.. like the commercial where there are a comical number of people all on a trail together. Except it’s not tv and it’s not funny in real life. It’s dangerous and scary.. and I’m far from the only person who feels that way and has regularly skied at the mountain for many years. It’s very different now. And yes obviously low terrain doesn’t help..

Low terrain is the main issue currently.

but why is it so crazy then to say that you regulate capacity with reservations for Ikon and day passes?? And dial it up and down as terrain allows.

That is not the deal where you ski. You buy a pass and live with the choices - good and bad. Some places have an Ikon reservation policy. Currently, Windham has managed to sell out its entire weekend Ikon reservation limit though mid-March. I think they must have lowered the limit to 10 Ikon passes per day.

I own property on the mountain, it isn’t simply go find somewhere else to ski.. and really why the heck should people be told to find somewhere else when they have been there for years and there are genuine safety concerns for everyone happening?

Your pass pays for a seat on the lifts and access to the trails, just like anyone else who buys a pass. Nobody cares if you own property for years at SR, particularly SR. If you are worried about your safety, you can skip the hyper crowded days. I know I do. Just this past Sunday at Stratton, in the middle of the snowstorm and after a few runs, I sat in the lodge from 10-12 with my daughter, niece, and BIL because we felt it was too crowded on the trails. In addition to the snowstorm, Stratton was extra crowded because it happened to be an Ikon early access day allowing Ikon passholders on the mountain at 745am (regular start time is 830am).

Why is that the answer versus the mountains being put to accountability for running a safe operation?

Stratton does station staff at choke points all the time and they were doing it on Sunday.

We owned property at Gore Mtn (NY) for 20 plus years until we got sick of the how NYS runs Gore. We did not really want to leave the community, but it was time for a change. If you are really fearing for your safety I am sure you could find a different area that might be less crowded. We are about 3.5hrs from Stratton. If we were able to get to Sugarbush in 3.5hrs that is where we would be skiing.

 

[Wilhelmson]

When Alterra and Vail buy a place, do they usually get all the resort owned real estate?

 

[KingGrump]

When Alterra and Vail buy a place, do they usually get all the resort owned real estate?

Depends.

 

[coldski]

Stratton has always been extremely crowded imo, I would never go there on a weekend after making the mistake of doing so way before Ikon. Perhaps the contrast is more stark at Sunday River where it wasn’t already overrun to the same degree until last season and this season.

Crowding means to me that there are literally huge masses of bodies moving down trails together.. like the commercial where there are a comical number of people all on a trail together. Except it’s not tv and it’s not funny in real life. It’s dangerous and scary.. and I’m far from the only person who feels that way and has regularly skied at the mountain for many years. It’s very different now. And yes obviously low terrain doesn’t help.. but why is it so crazy then to say that you regulate capacity with reservations for Ikon and day passes?? And dial it up and down as terrain allows. I own property on the mountain, it isn’t simply go find somewhere else to ski.. and really why the heck should people be told to find somewhere else when they have been there for years and there are genuine safety concerns for everyone happening? Why is that the answer versus the mountains being put to accountability for running a safe operation?

There is no excuse for overcrowding like this (one high speed 4 pack serving one open run I believe) . The resorts know how many trails (acres) are open and what the lift capacity is every day of the season. If the terrain gets too crowded then slow down the lifts or load every other chair

Unfortunately many (most) skiers care more about lift lines than having to ski in a crowd and the resorts know this

 

[James]

Lol^ Actually more controlled descent than most. Speed pretty slow. People sitting down and standing in the middle all over.

 

[coldski]

Lol^ Actually more controlled descent than most. Speed pretty slow. People sitting down and standing in the middle all over.

Good point. But they aren’t people They are snowboarders.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Cant believe we made it this far without implicating the online lodging sites. Oh but I forgot lodging is too expensive.

 

[MissySki]

Low terrain is the main issue currently.

That is not the deal where you ski. You buy a pass and live with the choices - good and bad. Some places have an Ikon reservation policy. Currently, Windham has managed to sell out its entire weekend Ikon reservation limit though mid-March. I think they must have lowered the limit to 10 Ikon passes per day.

Your pass pays for a seat on the lifts and access to the trails, just like anyone else who buys a pass. Nobody cares if you own property for years at SR, particularly SR. If you are worried about your safety, you can skip the hyper crowded days. I know I do. Just this past Sunday at Stratton, in the middle of the snowstorm and after a few runs, I sat in the lodge from 10-12 with my daughter, niece, and BIL because we felt it was too crowded on the trails. In addition to the snowstorm, Stratton was extra crowded because it happened to be an Ikon early access day allowing Ikon passholders on the mountain at 745am (regular start time is 830am).

Stratton does station staff at choke points all the time and they were doing it on Sunday.

We owned property at Gore Mtn (NY) for 20 plus years until we got sick of the how NYS runs Gore. We did not really want to leave the community, but it was time for a change. If you are really fearing for your safety I am sure you could find a different area that might be less crowded. We are about 3.5hrs from Stratton. If we were able to get to Sugarbush in 3.5hrs that is where we would be skiing.

Reservations are an evolving thing that change every season. I feel they will come into play more and more as we keep going, only time will tell. And I and many passholders at Sunday River are continuously giving this feedback.

I’d appreciate not being told I should have to find another place to ski when bringing up safety issues at a mountain. And not just one, but many this season. Many others are finding the same issues at other mountains all over the place, it is far from just where I ski. I never said anyone, nor the mountain, should care that I own property there.. my point was that I have more of an investment and desire to be there than just up and finding somewhere else to ski suddenly. I’m 40 and work a full time job in Biotech, I do not have the luxury of just skiing all non weekends and holidays, and don’t get to retire anytime soon to do so. I love how people feel that the responsible considerate skiers are the ones who should be driven out and need to change their whole ski locations in this.. versus agreeing that there are other issues that can and should be addressed when more and more guests are unhappy and concerned with changes the last couple of years. And not trivial changes or waiting in lines, but actual safety issues. I am done discussing it in this manner and space though, as it really is a waste of time.

 

[MissySki]

There is no excuse for overcrowding like this (one high speed 4 pack serving one open run I believe) . The resorts know how many trails (acres) are open and what the lift capacity is every day of the season. If the terrain gets too crowded then slow down the lifts or load every other chair

Unfortunately many (most) skiers care more about lift lines than having to ski in a crowd and the resorts know this

Yep, and it has been close to this at times on certain pinch points this season. Not completely this bad because wow.. but darn bad. Scenes that literally make your mouth drop open because it seems like it has to be a joke. At least these folks are all pretty slow looking.. the worst is adding in the straight lining backseated guys to the mix, flying through, and on East coast ice. Fun fun.

 

[Eric@ict]

I try to do these same things as well. It has always felt like a solid safe strategy, even on weekends. This season there have been too many times though where the crowd builds so much all around in a pinch point that there is no safe possibility of pulling off to wait it out.. that’s the scariest when you just have to keep moving and hoping you make it out of the mob still on your skis. That someone doesn’t catch an edge or lose their edge completely on ice and take you out. That situation is what’s had me call it a day more than once this season.

I try to do these same things as well. It has always felt like a solid safe strategy, even on weekends. This season there have been too many times though where the crowd builds so much all around in a pinch point that there is no safe possibility of pulling off to wait it out.. that’s the scariest when you just have to keep moving and hoping you make it out of the mob still on your skis. That someone doesn’t catch an edge or lose their edge completely on ice and take you out. That situation is what’s had me call it a day more than once this season.

We no longer ski past 1pm because of the crowds and craziness unless it’s quiet on the slopes that day. I’m starting to think set of x-country poles held outwards is the key to my safety.

 

[BLiP]

And not trivial changes or waiting in lines, but actual safety issues.

Its likely nothing will change until there are some serious injuries and resulting lawsuits. Its all about money. The fear of liability needs to be greater than the promise of profits.

 

[AmyPJ]

Its likely nothing will change until there are some serious injuries and resulting lawsuits. Its all about money. The fear of liability needs to be greater than the promise of profits.

This pretty much sums it up. The mountains take avalanche safety with the utmost of seriousness (as they should) but they don't take hazardous behavior seriously. Why don't they?