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Article on Crowding on Slopes

4aprice

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How much is crowd avoidance worth to you? Seen some push towards privatization of some places lately. (Windham NY, Powder Mt UT) I'm not honed in on the market for this kind of area but seems like there is some. I still claim that probably 75 percent of the days a ski area operates are not crowded. Weekend Warrior, your out of luck.
 

Pat AKA mustski

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Crowding is one thing, but I have seen Saturdays where there is literally a river of skiers at various choke points. I would love to see statistics on injuries at BBMR, but I would guess that is not publicly available. Safety is being sacrificed and there is no sign of that changing. It’s not just a CO problem. No, paid parking doesn’t alleviate crowds.
 

4aprice

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I just want to say. Isn't there a back ground to the picture Unofficial Network used? I seem to remember that there were power or other issues in the Back Bowls that particular day. It was not normal. I don't trust the media.
 

Brian Finch

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That answer to me….

Provide Free midweek skiing- I said it ; I’ve said it prior. It’s the only way to get biz levels even across the week & pls don’t tell me that they are not killing it on $16 can beer & $26 burgers & $32 Asian bowls. This would allow more staff to be hired and stabilize the workforce whilst being a weekend relief valve. Most weekends, I see ppl being turned away for food. They can’t handle what they have.
 

Vinnie

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That answer to me….

Provide Free midweek skiing- I said it ; I’ve said it prior. It’s the only way to get biz levels even across the week & pls don’t tell me that they are not killing it on $16 can beer & $26 burgers & $32 Asian bowls. This would allow more staff to be hired and stabilize the workforce whilst being a weekend relief valve. Most weekends, I see ppl being turned away for food. They can’t handle what they have.
I think we’re past that. At Mt Hood Meadows, Friday is the new Saturday and any midweek day with a decent dump of snow fills up the parking lots.
 

pchewn

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I think we’re past that. At Mt Hood Meadows, Friday is the new Saturday and any midweek day with a decent dump of snow fills up the parking lots.

I've said it before and I'll repeat it here. I'd much rather have the parking lot fill up to limit the crowds before the lift lines fill up or the slopes get too crowded.

Things I'm OK with getting filled up or too crowded:
  • Parking lots
  • Lodges
  • Cafeteria tables
  • Cafeteria lines for food
  • Shuttle busses
  • Lodging

Things I'm not OK with getting too crowded:
  1. The slopes
  2. The lift lines
 

snwbrdr

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So basically the disgruntled wants the reservation system from the COVID era... until the disgruntled can't get a reservation to use their ski pass at their preferred resort, and then they still be complaining.
 

Bozzenhagen

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The CO crowding issue will stop when the high-salary flex/remote work boom ends. It's already ending as numerous companies are enacting RTO policies and layoffs.

Making mid-weeks free would make it worse. The state is littered with people making 150K+ a year with flex jobs (300K+ in comparision, for you CA/NY folks). A local bartender in Summit told me they are pulling in 150K+ working two jobs....
 
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Bill Miles

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I think we’re past that. At Mt Hood Meadows, Friday is the new Saturday and any midweek day with a decent dump of snow fills up the parking lots.
Thanks for the info. I was thinking of going there for my birthday in March (good ticket deal at my age), might reconsider.
 

MissySki

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I still feel the pricing we see today is the issue. Normal supply in demand isn’t found in skiing nowadays.. because passes are super cheap and sold in huge numbers. My preference, raise season pass prices, significantly. Double it, triple it, I don’t care if that would bring skier level down significantly as well. Also raise mega pass prices, and include reservations/daily limits at partner resorts for them along with daily ticket sold. The raise in season pass prices offsets any losses from partnership deals having completely free rein on attendance. I have no idea what leveling allows this, just theorizing since I don’t have data to play with.

And no, I don’t buy the whole argument of how the industry is desperately trying to allow access to the less fortunate by providing cheaper passes. Do we really think the “poor” are the tourists traveling all over the country and crowding resorts everywhere..? There is severe overcrowding happening everywhere at really dangerous levels, it is obvious that providing access overall is not an issue, growing the sport is not an issue. They are just raking in the cash and allowing for the quality of experience to go way down. I’d rather pay more to play, than constantly being in danger with too many people on the slopes.. especially early season with limited terrain. Having these sorts of limits would also allow for varied limit levels to outside passes at a resort as the time of season and therefore open terrain allow. I don’t think it’s this unsolvable problem the industry likes to pretend it is, they just obviously don’t want to take the necessary steps to fix the problem that’s making them tons of cash. We either need less unchecked access volume or more resorts to open.. And I do think the resort should bear some liability in terms of shoving a huge number of people on the slopes together. There is a safe level for numbers of skiers on mountain, and with larger faster lifts being installed constantly it is feeling like we are started to fly by those numbers. How do we regulate that? I have no idea, but I don’t think the resorts should bear no liability when they knowingly allow this safety issue. It is not like accepting the inherent risks involved with the sport. People crowding to some of the recent levels being seen should not fall under “inherent risk” because they can and should control that piece in an appropriate way. And if that information isn’t readily available then the industry should be doing studies to figure that out.

Places like Taos require reservations for Ikon and also limit Ikon access to the full passholders only now. Seems like a responsible thing to do, by a mountain that does care about your experience. So why isn’t everyone else following suit? Some partner mountains have also left mega passes for overcrowding reasons. Again, there are a bunch of easy solutions to start with.. but most mountains apparently just don’t care to make any changes to what is happening currently.
 
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Tom K.

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I think we’re past that. At Mt Hood Meadows, Friday is the new Saturday and any midweek day with a decent dump of snow fills up the parking lots.

Truth. I remember a 4-5 inch Wednesday during the 2019/20 season where Meadows reportedly broke the 10,000 skier level. Not fun/

Thanks for the info. I was thinking of going there for my birthday in March (good ticket deal at my age), might reconsider.

Don't hesitate to gho. By mid-March, it's typically pretty nice "down in the valleys" and people's minds are turning to things other than skiing, and Meadows (Heather Canyon and it's related canyons in particular) often has spectacular corn skiing.
 

AmyPJ

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I still feel the pricing we see today is the issue. Normal supply in demand isn’t found in skiing nowadays.. because passes are super cheap and sold in huge numbers. My preference, raise season pass prices, significantly. Double it, triple it, I don’t care if that would bring skier level down significantly as well. Also raise mega pass prices, and include reservations/daily limits at partner resorts for them along with daily ticket sold. The raise in season pass prices offsets any losses from partnership deals having completely free rein on attendance. I have no idea what leveling allows this, just theorizing since I don’t have data to play with.

And no, I don’t buy the whole argument of how the industry is desperately trying to allow access to the less fortunate by providing cheaper passes. Do we really think the “poor” are the tourists traveling all over the country and crowding resorts everywhere..? There is severe overcrowding happening everywhere at really dangerous levels, it is obvious that providing access overall is not an issue, growing the sport is not an issue. They are just raking in the cash and allowing for the quality of experience to go way . I’d rather pay more to play, than constantly being in danger with too many people on the slopes.. especially early season with limited terrain. Having these sorts of limits would also allow for varied limit levels to outside passes at a resort as the time of season and therefore open terrain allow. I don’t think it’s this unsolvable problem the industry likes to pretend it is, they just obviously don’t want to take the necessary steps to fix the problem that’s making them tons of cash. We either need less unchecked access volume or more resorts to open.. And I do think the resort should bear some liability in terms of shoving a huge number of people on the slopes together. There is a safe level for numbers of skiers on mountain, and with larger faster lifts being installed constantly it is feeling like we are started to fly by those numbers. How do we regulate that? I have no idea, but I don’t think the resorts should bear no liability when they knowingly allow this safety issue. It is not like accepting the inherent risks involved with the sport. People crowding to some of the recent levels being seen should not fall under “inherent risk” because they can and should control that piece in an appropriate way. And if that information isn’t readily available then the industry should be doing studies to figure that out.

Places like Taos require reservations for Ikon and also limit Ikon access to the full passholders only now. Seems like a responsible thing to do, by a mountain that does care about your experience. So why isn’t everyone else following suit? Some partner mountains have also left mega passes for overcrowding reasons. Again, there are a bunch of easy solutions to start with.. but most mountains apparently just don’t care to make any changes to what is happening currently.
:golfclap:
 

scott43

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The CO crowding issue will stop when the high-salary flex/remote work boom ends. It's already ending as numerous companies are enacting RTO policies and layoffs.

Making mid-weeks free would make it worse. The state is littered with people making 150K+ a year with flex jobs (300K+ in comparision, for you CA/NY folks). A local bartender in Summit told me they are pulling in 150K+ working two jobs....
You make high salaries sounds like a bad thing... :ogbiggrin:
 

Brian Finch

Privateer Skier @ www.SkiWithaGrimRipper.com
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Just to stoke the flames….

it’s also an old$ new$ issue as passes are sooo cheap everyone skis, but few are skiers & resorts are forced to contend w these jokers.

This has lead to all sorts of dumb like GripWalk for those who can’t walk, touring kits for ppl who can’t ski & Boa for those who don’t get buckles….. combine this w a loss of all swagger from PSIA & there you have it. Under educated, low buy in consumers.

All distractions.
 

HardDaysNight

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Nov 7, 2017
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Park City, UT
I still feel the pricing we see today is the issue. Normal supply in demand isn’t found in skiing nowadays.. because passes are super cheap and sold in huge numbers. My preference, raise season pass prices, significantly. Double it, triple it, I don’t care if that would bring skier level down significantly as well. Also raise mega pass prices, and include reservations/daily limits at partner resorts for them along with daily ticket sold. The raise in season pass prices offsets any losses from partnership deals having completely free rein on attendance. I have no idea what leveling allows this, just theorizing since I don’t have data to play with.

And no, I don’t buy the whole argument of how the industry is desperately trying to allow access to the less fortunate by providing cheaper passes. Do we really think the “poor” are the tourists traveling all over the country and crowding resorts everywhere..? There is severe overcrowding happening everywhere at really dangerous levels, it is obvious that providing access overall is not an issue, growing the sport is not an issue. They are just raking in the cash and allowing for the quality of experience to go way down. I’d rather pay more to play, than constantly being in danger with too many people on the slopes.. especially early season with limited terrain. Having these sorts of limits would also allow for varied limit levels to outside passes at a resort as the time of season and therefore open terrain allow. I don’t think it’s this unsolvable problem the industry likes to pretend it is, they just obviously don’t want to take the necessary steps to fix the problem that’s making them tons of cash. We either need less unchecked access volume or more resorts to open.. And I do think the resort should bear some liability in terms of shoving a huge number of people on the slopes together. There is a safe level for numbers of skiers on mountain, and with larger faster lifts being installed constantly it is feeling like we are started to fly by those numbers. How do we regulate that? I have no idea, but I don’t think the resorts should bear no liability when they knowingly allow this safety issue. It is not like accepting the inherent risks involved with the sport. People crowding to some of the recent levels being seen should not fall under “inherent risk” because they can and should control that piece in an appropriate way. And if that information isn’t readily available then the industry should be doing studies to figure that out.

Places like Taos require reservations for Ikon and also limit Ikon access to the full passholders only now. Seems like a responsible thing to do, by a mountain that does care about your experience. So why isn’t everyone else following suit? Some partner mountains have also left mega passes for overcrowding reasons. Again, there are a bunch of easy solutions to start with.. but most mountains apparently just don’t care to make any changes to what is happening currently.
100%. Absolutely spot on!
 

johnnyvw

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near RDU
The CO crowding issue will stop when the high-salary flex/remote work boom ends. It's already ending as numerous companies are enacting RTO policies and layoffs.

Making mid-weeks free would make it worse. The state is littered with people making 150K+ a year with flex jobs (300K+ in comparision, for you CA/NY folks). A local bartender in Summit told me they are pulling in 150K+ working two jobs....
SOME companies....and many more are finding they don't need the expense of huge buildings that they used to have to have to house their office workers, and also that they have better productivity with WFH.

Remote work is here to stay.

I've pretty much resigned myself to never again skiing at any of the large resorts that are on the mega passes. I'll search out and go to the smaller "mom and pop" resorts. Some would argue they are the "soul" of skiing...
 

silverback

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Wasatch
I think we’re past that. At Mt Hood Meadows, Friday is the new Saturday and any midweek day with a decent dump of snow fills up the parking lots.
It’s pretty much been like that there for 20+ years. It accelerated after medical weed became legal. I remember the weekday crowds increasing and the conversations i overheard in the lift lines were suddenly all about growing techniques, fertilizers, etc.
Work from home early adopters.
 
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Tricia

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Places like Taos require reservations for Ikon and also limit Ikon access to the full passholders only now. Seems like a responsible thing to do, by a mountain that does care about your experience. So why isn’t everyone else following suit? Some partner mountains have also left mega passes for overcrowding reasons. Again, there are a bunch of easy solutions to start with.. but most mountains apparently just don’t care to make any changes to what is happening currently.
After locals with full price season passes at places like Jackson Hole and Big sky complaining about IKON pass holders having access to their trams and terrain that is considered premium JH and BS both implemented restrictions for IKON pass holders, sort of like Taos's policy that you are describing.

As for over crowding, this is not a new topic.

Then there is the added question: How do we grow the sport? Is growing the sport sustainable?
 

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