A safe vehicle or better gas mileage??? I got my answer yesterday

[surfsnowgirl]

Yesterday I drove past an accident involving a wrangler and a car. The wrangler was on it's side however, otherwise intact. The car was upright but didn't fare nearly as well as the Jeep. Didn't get the chance to see what the car was. I used to drive a tiny little Fiero and in hindsight it was quite scary. Being able to look under a tractor trailer isn't a very comforting thing. I still remember my rollover accident in 2009. My little Nissan Sentra that I drove at the time wound up on it's roof on the side of the freeway. I'm very grateful, well for a lot of things but one was that the rollover occurred on the section of the freeway that had a grassy shoulder. If the accident had happened a half mile earlier without a shoulder, I would have landed on my roof in the freeway lane and I shudder to think of all the cars that were on the road behind me and what could have happened to me and others. My Sentra, although totalled had it's body structure in tact and that with my seatbelt saved my life. However, that was my last tiny car. I'm not sure I could ever drive a low profile vehicle again.

I take it very easy in my Jeep when I round corners. I know what it's capable of and if the roads are wet or snowy I take it even easier.

Plus I went through a couple fabulous puddles this am. I first made sure there weren't any pedestrians nearby and then I barreled right through them

 

[Tom K.]

Since I believe I can avoid crashing due to my awesome situational awareness and quick reaction time, I will always choose utility, economy, comfort, coolness and pleasure over safety. A little unwieldy but a cool mantra.

Eric

KTM X-Bow for you Eric -- and me, if I can dream!

 

[scott43]

Well..all other things being equal, bigger is safer. Better to be the hammer than the nail..pity the nail though..

 

[Monique]

Well..all other things being equal, bigger is safer. Better to be the hammer than the nail..pity the nail though..

This is why I don't diet ... right?

(Seriously - I had a head-on skiing collision last season. I had a little groin pull. The other guy was built much lighter than me, and had to go down in a sled with a hurt shoulder. Now, anecdotes are not data, but ....)

 

[François Pugh]

This is why I don't diet ... right?

(Seriously - I had a head-on skiing collision last season. I had a little groin pull. The other guy was built much lighter than me, and had to go down in a sled with a hurt shoulder. Now, anecdotes are not data, but ....)

Naw, he was just a wuss. You don't ski on your shoulders.

I spent quite a few years with a tiny car, justified by my amazing reflexes and mad driving skills. I switched to a small car (Mazda 3). I don't think I will ever go back. If I had the money for fuel I would be driving a Huge vehicle, e.g. a crewcab. When it comes to a collision with another vehicle, the more massive vehicle comes out on top, with very few exceptions.

 

[Eleeski]

I had a Chevy Sprint (predecessor to the Geo Metro). I cut the top off it to make a convertible (the Geo Metro convertible was a copy of my car). I drove the wheels off it (actually replaced the engine with a new Geo engine). Easy and fun to drive while getting great mileage. Small enough to squeeze out of trouble spots to keep us safe enough. It got stolen. Bummer.

I also had a Jeep CJ. Four cylinder. Totally gutless but tolerable mileage. I considered it a small car as it seemed to live its life towing something twice its weight or working in low four wheel drive. Destroyed the clutch (it's amazing how much you can do with a manual transmission - if you can tolerate the burning clutch smell). Jeeps rock but I'm not sure they are the safest if I'm using them.

I kinda need a new tow vehicle. Since I can't find anything with a manual transmission, I will probably have to get some big (safe?) gas guzzler. Or rebuild the old Ranger (at least get a new clutch).

Eric

 

[Sibhusky]

Alltrack has a manual. Unfortunately, it's not rated for towing in the US. It is rated for it overseas, I think. And people are using it to tow.

 

[HDSkiing]

A good rule of thumb is the vehicle with more lugnuts is the “winner.”

Generally a compact with 4 beats the motorcycle with one, the sedan with six beats the compact, the suv/truck with 8 beats the sedan,then you move up to semi”s and finally a locomotive, which can be really hard to find a parking spot for in a crowded ski area parking lot...

 

[Wendy]

Well..I will only say..and not to dump on the party..small taps and big crashes are two different things.. SUV's generally have a higher mortality rate in crashes than sedans.

One of my memories from a winter spent driving I-70 from Summit County back to Boulder was the proliferation of SUV's on their roofs, off the road, in a ditch, or in the creek, and the dearth of sedans in the same position. Though bigger, the mortality rate is indeed greater for SUV's.

Not to put a damper on the fun, but if everyone adopted the "bigger is safer" logic, then we'd keep buying bigger and bigger vehicles with no end in sight. At some point, fuel economy and a lower center of gravity become important. Having driven an off-road equipped Xterra for years, I'd take my Subaru Outback over that for safety and competence in snow, anytime. Same said for the Audi A4 wagon I used to own.

I'm quite familiar with teenage crash scenarios, since I'm a high school teacher. Most of the kids I know involved in crashes were in SUV's or Jeeps, driving too fast for conditions, and they rolled them over.

 

[Monique]

Generally a compact with 4 beats the motorcycle with one, the sedan with six beats the compact, the suv/truck with 8 beats the sedan,then you move up to semi”s and finally a locomotive, which can be really hard to find a parking spot for in a crowded ski area parking lot...

In the Loveland parking lot, I saw my dream car, I think. It was a massive utility van, fire engine red, lifted with huge truck tires. I drooled a little.

 

[DanoT]

When I worked in the logging industry on B.C.'s west coast I witnessed the aftermath of a GMC pickup taking on a 150+Ton loaded off highway log truck head on. Boy did the crumple zone crumpled, but it worked as designed. The pickup's radiator was compressed tight against the firewall with the engine dropping below the passenger compartment.

The passenger compartment remained intact to the point where both doors opened and closed perfectly. This was pre-air bags so the driver broke the steering wheel with his face but only ended up with a swollen jaw. The logging truck was of course, undamaged.

 

[Monique]

When I worked in the logging industry on B.C.'s west coast I witnessed the aftermath of a GMC pickup taking on a 150+Ton loaded off highway log truck head on. Boy did the crumple zone crumpled, but it worked as designed. The pickup's radiator was compressed tight against the firewall with the engine dropping below the passenger compartment.

The passenger compartment remained intact to the point where both doors opened and closed perfectly. This was pre-air bags so the driver broke the steering wheel with his face but only ended up with a swollen jaw. The logging truck was of course, undamaged.

That's impressive.

Yeah, the crumple zones make fender benders expensive - but there's a reason we have them.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

There are definitely higher mortality rates for SUV's and yes many high profile vehicles have accidents because they are driving too fast and they roll. However, a bigger vehicle has the responsibility to not drive like an ahole and many times bad things happen because they think they are invincible and do stupid things. Stock Jeep Wrangler tires suck so there's a distinct possibility any Jeep that winds up on the side of the road didn't bother to get some proper shoes. I have meaty grippy after market tires on my jeep and I can't remember the last time I spun out. I feel safer driving a larger vehicle and with my tires I have an extremely competent winter driving machine with some great clearance. I'm not a speeder, respect the rules of the road and appropriate driving conditions and have never, ever once wound up on the side of the road. I pass plenty of people who have spun out and many of them are actually cars.

I'm a slow careful driver and this doesn't change no matter what my vehicle is. I've seen Jeep's in numerous accidents over the years and the other vehicle in the accident almost never wins, unless it was a semi and then the semi wins

The Jeep isn't a fuel economy friendly vehicle but out of the 10 things I look for in a 4x4 if 9 of those things are met, I'm good. I've had more joy with this vehicle in the past 3 years and its the gift that keeps on giving. I enjoy being high up, having very grippy tires and I always get where I'm going and frankly it's a fun vehicle to drive all year long. It's a 4 season convertible fun machine. Not to mention the Jeep wave, who doesn't love that.

Lots of good safe low profile vehicles out there including Subaru. Subaru indeed makes a great car as evidenced by how many are on the road. I love a good cross trek. The VW Alltack is pretty snazzy too.

I'm a Jeep girl though but not everyone is and that's ok. Can we have a Jeep emoticon one day please

 

[Monique]

I've noticed even my new Subaru, only a couple of inches wider and a couple of inches higher, is blown around more by wind. It seems like the roof box has less impact than the size of the vehicle. (IE, new Subie without roof box felt more wind affected than old Subie with roof box. It could be my imagination, though.)

 

[surfsnowgirl]

I've noticed even my new Subaru, only a couple of inches wider and a couple of inches higher, is blown around more by wind. It seems like the roof box has less impact than the size of the vehicle. (IE, new Subie without roof box felt more wind affected than old Subie with roof box. It could be my imagination, though.)

I don't think it's your imagination. I've never had a subaru with a roof box but the entire vehicle is an inch or two higher, that's a lot wider than the box so I bet you'd notice. Heavy wind is one area where a lower profile vehicle has an advantage over higher vehicles. I have to take it very, very easy when it's windy out.

 

[VickiK]

Note to self: Do not read threads with pictures of sexy new cars like the Alltrack because your Outback is running great, is paid for, and has been an awesome car for both the heinous daily commute and the glorious road/ski trips. La donna è mobile.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Note to self: Do not read threads with pictures of sexy new cars like the Alltrack because your Outback is running great, is paid for, and has been an awesome car for both the heinous daily commute and the glorious road/ski trips. La donna è mobile.

A paid off vehicle that runs great and suits your lifestyle is the best kind there is.

 

[Wendy]

I'm gonna share my love story with Subaru.....my first Subie was the first-generation Outback, from 1996. I had this car while living in Boulder (grad student) and drove it everywhere in the mountains, including some sketchy dirt tracks. It was great and never let me down. I remember driving through unplowed streets with 2 feet of snow in Boulder without a hitch, as well as lots of trips over Berthoud Pass in the snow. I planned on keeping that car forever. Two years later, and back in PA, while on my way to work, the driver of a Ford F-250 ran a stop sign and broadsided me on my passenger side, pushing me 30 feet across a plowed cornfield. I walked away from that crash with just a cut on my wrist, while the driver of the truck had to be airlifted to the hospital. Of course, my beloved Outback was totaled, but it saved my life. The Ford driver never even attempted to slow down at the stop sign...he hit me going about 30 mph.

Today, I have the 2015 iteration of the Outback and love it too, though I still miss my first one. I'm hard on my cars....mine has scratches and dents from bikes, paddle boards, and kicked-up stones on dirt roads. The clearance on it is 8.7". Not too bad in comparison with the Wrangler at 83" and Rubicon at 10". I plan on driving my Outback until it dies, or I get 250,000 miles on it, which ever comes first.

We also have a 2005 Xterra with 150,000 miles on it that we will drive until it kicks the bucket. It's spent multiple summers on 4WD tracks in remote southern Utah. It's pretty scratched up from brushing against pinon pine and being covered with silica-enriched clays, but that gives it character. It's a tank, but not nearly as good in snow as my Outback.

 

[trailtrimmer]

Yesterday I drove past an accident involving a wrangler and a car. The wrangler was on it's side however, otherwise intact. The car was upright but didn't fare nearly as well as the Jeep. Didn't get the chance to see what the car was.

The condition of the driver and passengers is far more important than the condition of the vehicle. Perceived safety vs. actual safety. Testing and statistics is the only way to arrive at an accurate measure, personal feelings and anecdotes mean nothing compared to engineering and physics.

Bottom line, if you like your jeep, drive it and have fun as it works for you, but statistically there are much safer options that do as well or much better in the snow while getting better economy.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Xterras are nice, I test drove one before I bought my Jeep. That was my almost vehicle but the lack of sunroof was a dealbreaker for me. Nice vehicle though, always loved the look. I think it's too bad they don't make them any longer. If I recall the price point was good too. I will admit the new outback's are looking good, I like what they are doing to the body lines. I understand the subie love because my friend Tracey is on her third and will be a fan for life.

When I had what could have been a fatal accident my Nissan Sentra saved my life. The jerked that slammed on his brakes hard in front of me that caused my accident never even stopped, they never caught him. My sentra was totaled but the overall frame was in tact so between that and my seat belt and perhaps something watching me from above, my life was saved. I walked away with just a scratch on my foot. That changed me forever. Of course I realized you only live once and I got a second chance so I decided my next vehicle should be a chrysler sebring convertible . That was a great vehicle and I still miss having a true convertible. Maybe I'll get a second car one day and get another, or maybe I'll get a Miata.

Yes the condition of the driver and passengers is by far the most important thing in an accident. I never wish harm on anyone. I would rather all vehicles be totaled and everyone inside them be fine. Despite whatever statistics say I've driven by many accidents involving Jeeps and know many people with Jeeps and aside from the folks inside being fine the Jeep is just fine and the other car usually doesn't fare so well. Sure statistically there vehicles out there that might be safer, do as well in the snow and get better gas mileage, absolutely. On the flip side there are plenty of vehicles out there that are less safe and aren't as good in the snow.

I would argue that there are better vehicles in the snow than a Wrangler with snow tires but that's just me. I'm not saying the Jeep is superior to ANY other vehicle, I'm just saying once you remove the getting better gas mileage component I feel the playing field becomes a lot more level.

After a snowstorm when the roads are quiet and everyone is home shoveling there are countless Wranglers out there having a good time,safely of course . I drove passed the nicest Rubicon this morning, about my year with a white body, black soft top and it looked great with the black bumpers. Lots of Jeep love out there but there are also lots of other great vehicles out there.

Sure the gas mileage sucks but it's a well made vehicle that is safe and just goes and goes and if the only sacrifice I'm making is good gas mileage then well. I'll likely get 200,000 out of mine. I'll probably drive it til it dies and then get another.

Here's some a few funny Jeep memes that make me laugh