Thread Starter
TS
-
For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
53’s Journey
- Thread starter Started at 53
- Start date
I started skiing two years ago at 46, at the same time as my kids. My impression is that it is not just psychological, the physics of adult sized people skiing is different. The snowplough seems to be a less effective braking technique for adults than for kids, useless for me on anything above a green. I was taught side slipping with pivoting in my second or third lesson and while it has tended to result in a bit of a snowboarding style of skiing, the additional speed control enabled me to handle more difficult runs.
Best not to overcome the fear thing too quickly. At the end of last season, my one son asked me to go through the terrain park with him and while doing so I tried skiing down the far side of ramps to work on fore aft balance. The ramp thing worked great, the failed hockey stop at the end resulted in a torn calf muscle. When I explained to a ski patroller what happened, he said I was too old to be in the terrain park.
Last edited:
As I mentioned earlier in this thread I learned to ski at 58. Am now nearly 81 and still getting plenty of days in each year. I agree that overcoming fear is harder for adult learners than for children but you just have to persevere and fork out for lots more lessons than younger folk. Being taught to side slip and pivot slip early is good as that can get you out of some tricky situations. Also a kick turn is handy but does not seem to be taught anymore. I patrolled as a volly at Perisher for a number of years and pivot slips and kick turns are essentials when running the big double ended akja sleds we used.
I would NEVER do that! She's been taking private lessons.
The legend in our family is that my poor mother was taught to drive by my father when she was pregnant...in the middle of winter...in a Ford Country Squire wagon...at age 24. Yet their marriage survived.
She's taking private lessons. Trust me, I am staying far away from the whole process, especially the mechanics! Interesting point you make about terrain etc. -- I guess it's just something I take for granted...
However, since we have a generally good relationship (20 years...) and can talk openly and without judgment about our various fears, phobia etc., I think it's OK to talk to her (away from the slopes, mind you) about why she feels scared etc.
@Bolder, you can buy her this book on fear and skiing by Mermer Blakeslee. It's a classic, and has had several printings with a title change and a new cover. It's an easy and insightful read.
I found this book invaluable in coming back from mountain bike injuries. Some relevant points:
* Don't push yourself when you're not ready. Wait longer than you think you should have to. I stuck to mellow trails for a while even though I felt comfortable and so would normally have escalated. Instead, I stuck with them, and when I did go to harder runs - no fear!
* When you do push yourself, still go back to your comfort zone. Maybe ski one run that's tougher, then five runs that are well within your abilities. Work it in gradually.
* Find the challenge in the "easy" stuff. For example, play games - you're only allowed to use the left 1/3 of the green run. Or you will turn every count of 3 no matter what. Escalate the difficulty but not the terrain.
The book uses skiing as the example, so it's extremely applicable to skiing - but also to other physically challenging pursuits.
@Bolder, you can buy her this book on fear and skiing by Mermer Blakeslee. It's a classic, and has had several printings with a title change and a new cover. It's an easy and insightful read.
Thanks for the suggestion. Didn't mean to hijack thread!
Thread Starter
TS
Another vote for skating around as much as possible and losing the poles for a while. It works.
Thread Starter
TS
Ticked a new box today, skied on indoor snow in Dubai, Ski Dubai
It was cool, took a lesson and then skied another couple of hours. The chair lift was a bit slow, so used the Poma lift after the first time. It was a bit different, but once I got the hang of it not a problem. The snow was good, rental skis were some type of Rossi ski, but they were good enough. I brought my own boots, helmet, pants and gloves as I did not want to use the “rental clothes” except for the jacket. It was an amazingly efficient operation, and not overly crowded. There was a wide variety of skier abilities on the hill. There is a cafe “mid-mountain” and the slope splits there, “Expert Only” to the right, and everyone else is supposed to go left. The left was ok, but had a couple of flattish pitches that sometimes I struggled to maintain speed before the next drop off. I liked the expert only side, but the speed was faster due to the steeper pitch and afforded me less time to work on my turns.
I did not feel like I skied very well today, but did have some good runs at times. I seemed to lack the rhythm I had when we were at Deer Valley. Had one near fall, but for the most part I was in balance.
The lesson concentrated on getting my skis more parallel.... Imagine that right? Did lots of drills, and worked on lifting my inside ski during turns. I think you might have gotten a piece paper under the inside ski a few times.
I really feel that I have the ability to unweight the new inside ski when I am traveling faster. I was following the instructor down and he was going pretty slow demonstrating the lifting of the inside ski. Definitely a drill I need to work on a lot. As is typically the case, when I make a mistake it seems my feet get too far apart and then things get defensive until I can make a few turns to get back in balance. Making turns really does get me back in the flow when I get the wide base going. I just hate it when I do it.
Note: Ski Apps do not work indoors.... unless you just want to use them as a timer.
Here is a video from my last run with the instructor
Here are a couple of photos from the top of the slope, you can see the split at mid-mountain and then everything turns to the right and disappears in this photo
I might ski for a couple of hours on Wednesday if I have the time.
It was cool, took a lesson and then skied another couple of hours. The chair lift was a bit slow, so used the Poma lift after the first time. It was a bit different, but once I got the hang of it not a problem. The snow was good, rental skis were some type of Rossi ski, but they were good enough. I brought my own boots, helmet, pants and gloves as I did not want to use the “rental clothes” except for the jacket. It was an amazingly efficient operation, and not overly crowded. There was a wide variety of skier abilities on the hill. There is a cafe “mid-mountain” and the slope splits there, “Expert Only” to the right, and everyone else is supposed to go left. The left was ok, but had a couple of flattish pitches that sometimes I struggled to maintain speed before the next drop off. I liked the expert only side, but the speed was faster due to the steeper pitch and afforded me less time to work on my turns.
I did not feel like I skied very well today, but did have some good runs at times. I seemed to lack the rhythm I had when we were at Deer Valley. Had one near fall, but for the most part I was in balance.
The lesson concentrated on getting my skis more parallel.... Imagine that right? Did lots of drills, and worked on lifting my inside ski during turns. I think you might have gotten a piece paper under the inside ski a few times.
I really feel that I have the ability to unweight the new inside ski when I am traveling faster. I was following the instructor down and he was going pretty slow demonstrating the lifting of the inside ski. Definitely a drill I need to work on a lot. As is typically the case, when I make a mistake it seems my feet get too far apart and then things get defensive until I can make a few turns to get back in balance. Making turns really does get me back in the flow when I get the wide base going. I just hate it when I do it.Note: Ski Apps do not work indoors.... unless you just want to use them as a timer.
Here is a video from my last run with the instructor
Here are a couple of photos from the top of the slope, you can see the split at mid-mountain and then everything turns to the right and disappears in this photo
I might ski for a couple of hours on Wednesday if I have the time.
Wow, that looks like perfect "hero" snow for learning. I so enjoy reading your updates here.
What are your thoughts about those runs you had there in Dubai?
I'm asking about the thoughts/memories/sensations/issues that replay over and over in your head as you review your skiing.
What are your thoughts about those runs you had there in Dubai?
I'm asking about the thoughts/memories/sensations/issues that replay over and over in your head as you review your skiing.
Thread Starter
TS
As noted in my post, I really dislike when I get my base too wide. I feel like the wide base gets me into defensive skiing as I am not able to maneuver/change outside skis when the uphill ski is so far outside my hips. I did not feel my shins against my boot cuff as much as when I was in DV, kinda felt a bit backseated today in general.
Looking at the video, my hands are still not far enough out front.
As for the snow, it was very good. 25* inside there. Got a bit piled up in a few places towards the end of my 3 hours. I’ll likely be there for 1st tracks on Wednesday (10am)
It sounds like you're thinking about a number of related things ....
a) You sensed yourself feeling and acting defensive as you skied.
Have you skied with less defensiveness? If yes, tell more; let's figure out what can lower that feeling.
b) You are aware that the distance between your skis' tails is wide, and that the distance between your feet is wide.
Do you feel this as you ski, or did you only notice it in the video?
c) You connect the wide ski tails/wide foot stance with the sensation of defensiveness.
The last time you skied with narrower feet/skis, what was going on that helped you do that?
c) You have difficulty getting your new outside ski (uphill ski) to start the new turn because it is so far outside of your hips.
Correct diagnosis. I can see this in the video. You are pushing that new outside ski out farther at initiation, and then because that foot is then so far out there, your body braces against it. This works to start your new turns ... but but but ... it's a harmful habit and needs to be replaced now. So I agree, narrowing the the wide stance and wide tails is a good goal.
d) You did not feel tongue-shin contact in your boots, but you have in the past.
Do you remember what you did to maintain tongue-shin contact in the past?
e) Your hand position in the video worries you; you think your hands should be farther forward.
Your hands do not need to be farther forward; focus on feet and legs at this point)
f) Your turns lacked the rhythm you've experienced in the past.
I can see that in the video. Easy fix: try singing in your head, and turn to the rhythm.
g) Your instructor asked you to lift the new inside ski; you had some success with this drill at faster speeds, but not as much success as you'd like.
Were you attempting to lift the whole new inside ski, or just its tail? Just its tail is enough, leaving the tip gliding along on the snow. If the tip rises, close your ankle to get tongue-shin contact and try again. This is a good drill because it tells you if your'e aft or not. .............
But first you might try skiing in a narrower wedge. Close your ankles for shin-tongue contact, slide your feet closer to each other, and make gentle wedge turns with singing in your head for rhythm.
h) Your instructor had you doing lots of drills to try to get the skis parallel
Which other drills? Any success with them?
i) You had some good runs; you felt mostly in balance, and despite a near fall, you stayed vertical!
Can you focus on the good sensations these good runs gave you? Seek those good sensations in every turn you make; that's why we ski.
=====================================================
My overall thoughts: I think you are way aft, which causes insecurity. A really wide stance is a way people try to get a more secure feeling. It doesn't work. The wide stance messes up turn initiation as you've experienced, and it forces you to stay aft. So you're right, you need to narrow your stance.
To do that, close your ankles to maintain continuous shin-tongue contact, slide your feet closer together and keep them there, then ski in a wedge. Don't lift a ski at first (that's scary and destroys feelings of confidence!), sing in your head to get some rhythm going, loosen up and relax and enjoy your runs. Find your bliss. Your confidence will return with that bliss. This will all come back to you when you can relax (you are very rigid) and ski rhythmically without worrying about doing new things. Eyes on the prize: bliss!
Once you can make wedge turns while relaxed, you'll be centered (not aft), and occupying that wonderful state of skier euphoria. Then you'll be ready for getting parallel with all those fine drills.
a) You sensed yourself feeling and acting defensive as you skied.
Have you skied with less defensiveness? If yes, tell more; let's figure out what can lower that feeling.
b) You are aware that the distance between your skis' tails is wide, and that the distance between your feet is wide.
Do you feel this as you ski, or did you only notice it in the video?
c) You connect the wide ski tails/wide foot stance with the sensation of defensiveness.
The last time you skied with narrower feet/skis, what was going on that helped you do that?
c) You have difficulty getting your new outside ski (uphill ski) to start the new turn because it is so far outside of your hips.
Correct diagnosis. I can see this in the video. You are pushing that new outside ski out farther at initiation, and then because that foot is then so far out there, your body braces against it. This works to start your new turns ... but but but ... it's a harmful habit and needs to be replaced now. So I agree, narrowing the the wide stance and wide tails is a good goal.
d) You did not feel tongue-shin contact in your boots, but you have in the past.
Do you remember what you did to maintain tongue-shin contact in the past?
e) Your hand position in the video worries you; you think your hands should be farther forward.
Your hands do not need to be farther forward; focus on feet and legs at this point)
f) Your turns lacked the rhythm you've experienced in the past.
I can see that in the video. Easy fix: try singing in your head, and turn to the rhythm.
g) Your instructor asked you to lift the new inside ski; you had some success with this drill at faster speeds, but not as much success as you'd like.
Were you attempting to lift the whole new inside ski, or just its tail? Just its tail is enough, leaving the tip gliding along on the snow. If the tip rises, close your ankle to get tongue-shin contact and try again. This is a good drill because it tells you if your'e aft or not. .............
But first you might try skiing in a narrower wedge. Close your ankles for shin-tongue contact, slide your feet closer to each other, and make gentle wedge turns with singing in your head for rhythm.
h) Your instructor had you doing lots of drills to try to get the skis parallel
Which other drills? Any success with them?
i) You had some good runs; you felt mostly in balance, and despite a near fall, you stayed vertical!
Can you focus on the good sensations these good runs gave you? Seek those good sensations in every turn you make; that's why we ski.
=====================================================
My overall thoughts: I think you are way aft, which causes insecurity. A really wide stance is a way people try to get a more secure feeling. It doesn't work. The wide stance messes up turn initiation as you've experienced, and it forces you to stay aft. So you're right, you need to narrow your stance.
To do that, close your ankles to maintain continuous shin-tongue contact, slide your feet closer together and keep them there, then ski in a wedge. Don't lift a ski at first (that's scary and destroys feelings of confidence!), sing in your head to get some rhythm going, loosen up and relax and enjoy your runs. Find your bliss. Your confidence will return with that bliss. This will all come back to you when you can relax (you are very rigid) and ski rhythmically without worrying about doing new things. Eyes on the prize: bliss!
Once you can make wedge turns while relaxed, you'll be centered (not aft), and occupying that wonderful state of skier euphoria. Then you'll be ready for getting parallel with all those fine drills.
Last edited:
Thread Starter
TS
I am not a trained instructor, so take my advice with that in mind!!!!
Regarding wide stance: it is hard to have a wide stance if you can stand/balance on one ski and are confident on one foot.
1) Practice standing on one ski. Raise the tail and keep nose tip lightly on snow. Try lifting the ski with a knee bend. Also try it by inclining the hip (knee mostly straight).
2) Try skiing in a straight line on one ski. Pick a gentle slope or do traverse only. Turn uphill to stop. Raise tail of ski only.
3) Alternate skis to make sure you are working on balance for both feet.
Once you are comfortable going in straight line on one ski, you can try again the drill the instructor was having you do -- raising the tail of the inside ski during the turn.
FYI I was taught to do the 'raise ski tail' in turns thing before learning to ski in a straight line on one ski. I found the drill to be much easier after practicing on one ski in a straight line. So in retrospect, I wish it had been taught to me in reverse. I don't know why it is taught in the order that it is. Maybe they worry a beginner may get nervous, lock up, and not recover well?? Maybe a real instructor can chime in for the reason 'why' and you can forget my post!
You can work on your balance off snow. Make a point of standing on one foot around the house. While brushing teeth. While washing dishes. When you put on your socks, shoes, pants. Etc.
Regarding wide stance: it is hard to have a wide stance if you can stand/balance on one ski and are confident on one foot.
1) Practice standing on one ski. Raise the tail and keep nose tip lightly on snow. Try lifting the ski with a knee bend. Also try it by inclining the hip (knee mostly straight).
2) Try skiing in a straight line on one ski. Pick a gentle slope or do traverse only. Turn uphill to stop. Raise tail of ski only.
3) Alternate skis to make sure you are working on balance for both feet.
Once you are comfortable going in straight line on one ski, you can try again the drill the instructor was having you do -- raising the tail of the inside ski during the turn.
FYI I was taught to do the 'raise ski tail' in turns thing before learning to ski in a straight line on one ski. I found the drill to be much easier after practicing on one ski in a straight line. So in retrospect, I wish it had been taught to me in reverse. I don't know why it is taught in the order that it is. Maybe they worry a beginner may get nervous, lock up, and not recover well?? Maybe a real instructor can chime in for the reason 'why' and you can forget my post!
You can work on your balance off snow. Make a point of standing on one foot around the house. While brushing teeth. While washing dishes. When you put on your socks, shoes, pants. Etc.
For late learners (you and me) that wide stance can be very hard to get rid of but as usual you're getting good advice. One footed skiing is the key to getting out of the back seat which allows you to tip and unweight the inside ski. When I first attempted it, it seemed impossible but I got some results by starting with a traverse which allows you to ride on the big toe edge of your downhill ski. Lift just the tail at first (thumpers), progress to keeping the tail up, then the whole ski. Switch feet just before your next turn and let your natural tendency to fall to the inside pressure your new big toe edge.
A side benefit to these one footed drills is that you eliminate the rotary component of the turn and rely entirely on your edges. There's no pushing off or wedging with one foot off the ground.
Last year I dedicated 3 or 4 mornings a week for 6 weeks to these basic skills. I can actually carve a few turns now.
A side benefit to these one footed drills is that you eliminate the rotary component of the turn and rely entirely on your edges. There's no pushing off or wedging with one foot off the ground.
Last year I dedicated 3 or 4 mornings a week for 6 weeks to these basic skills. I can actually carve a few turns now.
Thread Starter
TS
Turning away from the fall line slows me down
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2015
- Posts
- 1,863
Looking at your video, look at the first two turns and watch what happens to the tail of the inside ski. See it is pushing snow toward the other ski? That's because you are beginning your turns by stepping onto the new outside ski instead of by releasing the inside ski. If you did the latter, that ski would flatten and not bite into the snow, causing a little tug on your inside knee. At 53, you do not want to be stressing the knees
.
To start a turn, you need to roll your inside foot toward the little toe inside your boot, flattening the inside ski, thereby releasing its edge.
.To start a turn, you need to roll your inside foot toward the little toe inside your boot, flattening the inside ski, thereby releasing its edge.
Sponsor
Members online
- socalgal
- blackke17
- Matt Merritt
- dbostedo
- tball
- pud
- precisionchiro
- KimJongTr1ll
- skiki
- Chip
- GregK
- Chris V.
- salvatore
- willy384
- Plai
- river-z
- BullMcCabe
- Henryboppy
- mikel
- Jeronimo
- Don in Morrison
- COSkier87
- Philpug
- BLiP
- jdwalk
- Mendieta
- my07mcx2
- Dwight
- skidrew
- Mothertucker
- Doublegreen
- msr2009
- Schussboelie
- Even_Stevens
- evr66
- dovski
- waxloaf
- TomPietrowski
- tch
- ss20
- johnnyvw
- Noodler
- zircon
- BeiJiHu
- crgildart
- AltaSkier
- scvaughn
- Petrus
- Rudi Riet
- Brian Finch