When is a ski boot not a ski boot?

[Doug Briggs]

Hate ski boots but love to ski? This Colorado company created a way to allow skiers to wear snowboard boots

This system looks pretty much like the Apex boot.

Snowboarders: would you consider this product to expand your options?

Skiers: would you consider this or even the Apex boot to remedy your (dis)comfort with ski boots?

 

[Philpug]

We saw these at SIA.

 

[Started at 53]

We saw these at SIA.

And????

Give us he low down on the Apex boots

 

[Philpug]

And????

Give us the low down on the Apex boots

Hmmm..

 

[Doby Man]

I don't know. Maybe snowboarders will view this as an unintended invitation. Then again, could it open a reverse crossover portal so to speak. Maybe if they included a little compartment where you can "keep your weed", that'll work even better. On a more serious note, I wouldn't think that design would offer the ability for a skier to get closer to the shell ... if there really isn't one. The conventional ski boot operates as an exoskeleton in a manner that would make this concept inferior for direct transmission. For me and many others, a majority of technical focus is about exploiting "foot to shell" contact. Though, exploiting snowboarders for the growth of skiing would be a nice reversal.

 

[David]

What I've heard is it's a good intermediate boot that's good for lazy cruising. I never had a comfy and responsive boot until Daleboot.

 

[Tony S]

“This product is not for your expert skier,” he said. “If you’re in the moguls and in the trees all day this isn’t going to be for you. This is for someone who is a beginner or intermediate skiing on the groomers. In those conditions they work awesome.”

 

[ski otter 2]

Apex et al. has seemed to me to be structure around a structure, in an attempt to give the ease and comfort of a snowboard boot, on and off the board, to a ski boot. (???)

I'd dismissed it as odd. @Doby Man pretty much captures it.


But then a man who I've had a lot of very good contact with in the ski industry, Dan G., has become at least a Rocky Mountain regional rep for Apex. He formerly was the manager of Christy's Copper Mt., and then Christy's Boulder (aka Boulder Ski Deals); AND he's a man who has had encyclopedic experience and knowledge of skis/gear and what they can do - a walking "Gear Reviews and Comparisons" guy, you might say, before there was Pugski. He's also a really nice guy, who some of you may know.

So this one consideration has made me suspend judgement on Apex, perhaps indefinitely. My guess is there must be something to it, but not sure.

What @Tony S wrote also seems probable. But Dan G. is a really good skier, including in bumps and trees.

 

[Fishbowl]

A couple of friends who have owned the Apex boots complained that they actually fail in their basic claim of comfort. Whilst they are wonderful to walk around in, on the slopes the skeleton causes pressure hot spots through the soft shell of the boots.

 

[Ken_R]

Most people who are new to skiing or even those below a certain performance level who have been skiing for a while absolutely despise traditional plastic ski boots. They hate the weight, the process of putting them on and taking them off, the rigidity and lack of grip when walking and so on. Some of those things have been addressed by boot manufacturers recently but still there is a lot of room for improvement, specially for the skiers I mentioned since most advanced skiers / enthusiasts get their gear dialed and even so do not mind some inconveniences and discomfort in the name of higher performance.

 

[Philpug]

I remember talking to these guys at SIA, either this past year or the year before. The product they were showing was not in it's final stage and they were still in the research/feedback stage. I do recall that they were pretty realistic with their expectations on price, again IIRC, it was to be below $300.00 (this might have changed). I do like that, again, they are realistic with the performance expectations that these are not for advanced skiers but beginner/intermediates.

 

[Started at 53]

There has to be a market for these, but the pricing is pretty high for a beginner/intermediate. I/we bought boots last week, so not in the market, but they are an interesting concept.

Note: I like to think outside the box and like innovative ideas

Is this design the new thing? I’m not qualified to make a comment on that. I remember earlier this year reading (possibly watching a video) that a guy (possibly the guy from DPS) was in the midst of designing a totally new boot what would change the industry. I recall he was a year or two out from ready though.

Let’s face it, if it were not for innovators, we would be using candles/lanterns for light and traveling via trains and ocean going ships. Or in skiing terms, skiing on 210 cm straight/narrow skis in powder.

There has to be a better alternative to the current ski boot without sacrificing performance.

 

[Philpug]

There has to be a market for these, but the pricing is pretty high for a beginner/intermediate. I/we bought boots last week, so not in the market, but they are an interesting concept.

Note: I like to think outside the box and like innovative ideas

Is this design the new thing? I’m not qualified to make a comment on that. I remember earlier this year reading (possibly watching a video) that a guy (possibly the guy from DPS) was in the midst of designing a totally new boot what would change the industry. I recall he was a year or two out from ready though.

Let’s face it, if it were not for innovators, we would be using candles/lanterns for light and traveling via trains and ocean going ships. Or in skiing terms, skiing on 210 cm straight/narrow skis in powder.

There has to be a better alternative to the current ski boot without sacrificing performance.

If they keep the price below $300, I think that is realistic. I still see the problem with the chassis that the earlier Apex had and that is a really long BSL, judging by the image it could be up to 30cm longer than a traditional boot, so if you are in a 305mm BSL, it could put you out into the 330mm range. First, other than demo/system bindings, there are no traditional binding that as that type of range built in, Second, that is going to change many peoples binding settings but a full number because you are moving over 2 columns on the chart. Apex boots run about $1,000. If these are under $300 and if someone already has snowbaord boots and they just plan on skiing "recreationally". I know thats a lot of "ands" that need to be filled but they might be able to pull it off. Are they for the demographics of our readership? Maybe not.

As far as "the guy from DPS" designing a whole new boot, yes. I have seen it, touched it and even smelled it, but am sworn to secrecy other than I will agree, they are making changes in boot design I have never seen before.

 

[Started at 53]

Thanks @Philpug

Apex website states the 2018 models have a much shorter BSL, looks like the 27 is a 321, about 10mm shorter than the previous years.

Looking forward to the DPS boot coming out.

It seems DPS’s heritage is powder, is it an alpine boot or more of a backcountry boot?

 

[Philpug]

Thanks @Philpug

Apex website states the 2018 models have a much shorter BSL, looks like the 27 is a 321, about 10mm shorter than the previous years.

IMHO that was a huge change that was needed with Apex.

Looking forward to the DPS boot coming out.

It seems DPS’s heritage is powder, is it an alpine boot or more of a backcountry boot?

Spoiler: Read

Can you keep a secret?

Spoiler: Answer

So can I

 

[Started at 53]

@Philpug

 

[skibob]

And????

Give us he low down on the Apex boots

I demoed them once. They were a) not as comfortable as I hoped and b) gave up a LOT more performance than I'd imagined. I wanted to like them. They look so cozy. But no. Not even close.

And getting in/out of the ski part is a lot harder than it looks. And walking around IN the full rig is significantly harder than a traditional boot because the sole is about 30mm longer and you feel it.

 

[skibob]

As far as "the guy from DPS" designing a whole new boot, yes. I have seen it, touched it and even smelled it, but am sworn to secrecy other than I will agree, they are making changes in boot design I have never seen before.

But I am sure you will be one of the first to break the news once its ready for prime time . . . right????

 

[skibob]

IMHO that was a huge change that was needed with Apex.

Spoiler: Read

Can you keep a secret?

Spoiler: Answer

So can I

In all seriousness, if its that revolutionary, I would expect it revolutionizes "boot" in a way that could be applied across all those variations, ie powder, freestyle, BC, etc.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I will be interested to see how this one plays out. It seems to be a lot like the Apex so I would expect similar benefits and drawbacks.

And????

Give us he low down on the Apex boots

I demoed Apex boots a few years ago and found them quite functional. They were comfortable, warm (although it wasn't terribly cold out the day I tried them) and the performance hit wasn't nearly as much as I expected. I was able carve the groomers and shred the gnar. I did collapse the boot on a steep mogul run but I didn't have their highest end boot either.

Nota Bene: I work at a shop that sells the Apex now. Alongside Head, Atomic, Lange and Fischer. I'm not plugging the boot (pun unintended) but do think it is a worthwhile consideration for anyone that has tried everything and wants to try something radically different.