Skis for a beginner?

[MAB]

After many years of making fun of my ski habit, my wife has finally decided to take up skiing. (She has snowboarded but never made it past the low-intermediate level because her feet always hurt and she couldn't make it more than a few hours whenever she went). She has an appointment to get fitted for boots next week, but I am not sure what to do about skis for her because I keep hearing conflicting advice from people in the stores around here. The advice ranges from demo before you buy (I don't see the point in a beginner demoing, but maybe I am wrong) to recommendations of skis anywhere from 70 to 95mm underfoot to it is not worth buying skis for a beginner. So my question is, is it worth buying skis for a beginner? And, if so, what skis make the most sense for her to buy? She is 5'0" tall, about 115 pounds, and pretty athletic. We will mostly ski at Targhee, Jackson, Pebble Creek, and the LCC resorts. It is really cheap to take lessons at our local mountain, so she plans on taking one lesson a week all season. I would guess that she will be able to get in about 25 days total this year. The group we ski with skis mostly off-trail, and she hopes to be able to ski at least some of the time with us within the next few years.

If we do buy skis, how long is it before beginners typically have to upgrade their skis? There are a lot of ski swaps here where I can pick up gear for cheap, which is why I am thinking it is probably worth buying rather than doing season long rentals (plus buying gives us more control over the ski she gets). But I guess this might change if beginners go through skis quickly as they advance.

Thanks for any advice you might have.

 

[Jilly]

75-85mm. This will give her a stable platform to work with. What do the local shops have for manufacturers?

 

[Started at 53]

I just went though this “dilemma”

If you do the math, buy skis. Renting 25 days for 2 years more than pays for the beginner-intermediate skis she will need.

It’s a no brainer

 

[Jilly]

And there is that....

But she might be the type that likes her own stuff. I've taught this type of lady many times over the years. Ladies night...Wednesday night...skiing then wine...Most preferred their own equipment.

 

[MAB]

For manufacturers, you can find pretty much anything. The closest places have Atomic, Rossignol, Head, Armada, Volkl, Nordica. There are a couple of consignment shops nearby with large inventories, and you can usually find some of the smaller company's skis that are popular around here (4frnt, ON3P, DPS). One ski that was recommended to us was the Sassy 7, but it seemed a bit wide for a beginner.

As for rentals, we would do a season long rental from a local shop, which runs in the 150-200 per year range, rather than renting every time she goes to the mountain.

 

[Pequenita]

I think seasonal rentals if you can change skis mid-season are the way to go for beginners. I would go more for height/width than any particular brand.

 

[HeluvaSkier]

For a woman that small, for a beginner ski, I'd actually put her on a junior SL ski... 150cm or so. Something like an Elan RCS with a normal freeflex binding would do the trick. This is the perfect learning tool IMO... She doesn't need width yet, she will only be skiing groomed snow anyway. Get her on something narrow and soft so she can start to feel how the ski reacts when it is tipped on edge. That kind of ski has a HUGE performance envelope and will support her groomer habit as she improves... then you can buy her a wider ski down the road for when she's ready to venture off piste. I saw that type of ski on eBay last fall for dirt cheap... so you won't be out a lot of money for a setup like that.

 

[graham418]

Rent for the season, or buy, either way don't get a ski wider than 70 or so. It is much easier to get on edge. Get something pretty soft . It will make the learning a lot faster. If she outgrows the ski in a season, mission accomplished

 

[François Pugh]

After many years of making fun of my ski habit, my wife has finally decided to take up skiing. (She has snowboarded but never made it past the low-intermediate level because her feet always hurt and she couldn't make it more than a few hours whenever she went). She has an appointment to get fitted for boots next week, but I am not sure what to do about skis for her because I keep hearing conflicting advice from people in the stores around here. The advice ranges from demo before you buy (I don't see the point in a beginner demoing, but maybe I am wrong) to recommendations of skis anywhere from 70 to 95mm underfoot to it is not worth buying skis for a beginner. So my question is, is it worth buying skis for a beginner? And, if so, what skis make the most sense for her to buy? She is 5'0" tall, about 115 pounds, and pretty athletic. We will mostly ski at Targhee, Jackson, Pebble Creek, and the LCC resorts. It is really cheap to take lessons at our local mountain, so she plans on taking one lesson a week all season. I would guess that she will be able to get in about 25 days total this year. The group we ski with skis mostly off-trail, and she hopes to be able to ski at least some of the time with us within the next few years.

If we do buy skis, how long is it before beginners typically have to upgrade their skis? There are a lot of ski swaps here where I can pick up gear for cheap, which is why I am thinking it is probably worth buying rather than doing season long rentals (plus buying gives us more control over the ski she gets). But I guess this might change if beginners go through skis quickly as they advance.

Thanks for any advice you might have.

Besides the fact that the different shops want to get rid of whatever stock they happen to have, there are also two different schools of thought on what a beginner ought to be skiing. One school thinks the skis should be really soft with no torsional rigidity, so that they will be more forgiving of errors. This type of ski will be dangerous if said beginners ski over 15 mph, won't reward proper movement and will frustrate people who are actually willing to put a little effort into learning how to ski. The other school of thought is that beginners should be given skis that are soft enough in longitudinal flex to be bent into a turn without the need for a lot of speed, but still able to handle a little more than 15 mph, and are stiff enough in torsion that when the ski is tipped on edge the edge is actually able to supply a significant amount of force and turn the skier - if you want forgiveness go to confession. And then there are those who try and compromise somewhere between these two bookends.

IMNSH opinion, the real skis marketed as "beginner skis" are too soft - forgetabout'em. A nice intermediate ski, cambered (no rocker) with a length of about 150 cm (plus or minus 4 cm) a width around 70 mm(pluse or minus 2 mm), a radius between 12 m and 15 m would be great for a beginner's 1st year. You should find a used one on sale for cheep at a ski swap or consignment store, season rental. Failing that, the junior SL ski @HeluvaSkier suggested should do.

 

[Ken_R]

I just got my Wife a pair of Black Crows Captis Birdie (90mm wide 157cm long). She is an intermediate and has never owned skis. She has just used rentals (regular ones, not demos!). She is 5'-4" 120~130. She wanted ease and control and I think these are gonna deliver. They have a pretty nice even flex. She loved how they looked (We live in Colorado and she skis mostly groomers and some off piste terrain)

IMHO yes, it is worth buying skis even for a beginner that intends to keep learning the sport. Your own skis again, IMHO, are much safer than rentals and provide more reassurance overall.


There are lots of great skis out there for women this season.

 

[Blue Streak]

I think seasonal rentals if you can change skis mid-season are the way to go for beginners. I would go more for height/width than any particular brand.

What she said.

 

[MAB]

IMNSH opinion, the real skis marketed as "beginner skis" are too soft - forgetabout'em. A nice intermediate ski, cambered (no rocker) with a length of about 150 cm (plus or minus 4 cm) a width around 70 mm(pluse or minus 2 mm), a radius between 12 m and 15 m would be great for a beginner's 1st year. You should find a used one on sale for cheep at a ski swap or consignment store, season rental. Failing that, the junior SL ski @HeluvaSkier suggested should do.

I am curious, why no rocker for a beginner? I seem read conflicting advice about this, with some saying get a ski with tip rocker because it makes it easier to initiate turns.

 

[François Pugh]

The tips are the first part of the ski to interact with the snow going forward, and IMO it's important to get a feel for what they (the tips) are doing. Tip rocker on a groomed run or other relatively hard surface removes that first influence of the tips, and delays it until the skis are tipped far enough over for there to be real pressure at the tip. It's harder to learn how to use the front parts of your skis when they are often not really touching the snow than when they are always firmly touching the snow. If you make a wrong move the tips interact with the snow and you know it; if you make a correct move, the tip interact with the snow and you know it. Yes, with a short turn radius (15 m or less), you will have bumps randomly interacting with the tips when you try to ski straight with no turns at all. So don't do that!

The other school of thought is not having the front part of your ski engaged until you are really tipping the ski makes it easier to pivot the skis, and makes the skis more forgiving. You see by virtue of the fact that they are beginners they have no control over their bodies, especially their legs, despite living with them for a number of years, so they need forgiveness more than they need something that will teach them correct movements. After they have had 25 lessons per year for 10 or 15 years, then they will be ready for skis that do what they are told to do from the get go. Instead of giving them noodles with no torsional rigidity so they can be forgiven, we will give them a stiff enough ski, but make sure the tips don't get loaded much if at all without a lot of effort or until they are already in a turn.

The choice, I guess depends on how capable you think your beginner how capable your beginner is.

Whatever you do, make sure your beginner is in boots that fit very well. Then unless she is a true 1 in a million klutz, she should be able to quickly get used to and enjoy a ski with enough strength to turn her weight and camber to keep the tips engaged all the time.

That's my opinion. Other opinions exist (but they are wrong ).

 

[Nick Golden]

I'd buy as opposed to renting. Maybe start with an atomic vantage 85, the K2 Thrilluvit, or Salomon Myriad. Just get a cheap binding from your local store...Salomon Z10 for example. At some point she will need a wider ski so then use these as her frontside more carving ski. Midseason if she does a lesson everyweek, Im sure shell want something a little more advanced. But at this point she wont even know what to focus on...as in will she appreciate a stiffer ski or a more snappy floaty ski. Hell with it, buy the black pearls and call it day!

One of the keys for her is going to be the boot fit. Do not let her get a boot too big or too wide. Tell them to do a shell fit and have no more than a snug two fingers between her heel and the shell. Depending on her foot shape, maybe look at salomon and or Atomics so you can bake the liner and shell to mold to her foot.

Hope this was helpful.

 

[Swede]

I just got my Wife a pair of Black Crows Captis Birdie (90mm wide 157cm long). She is an intermediate and has never owned skis. She has just used rentals (regular ones, not demos!). She is 5'-4" 120~130. She wanted ease and control and I think these are gonna deliver. They have a pretty nice even flex. She loved how they looked (We live in Colorado and she skis mostly groomers and some off piste terrain)

IMHO yes, it is worth buying skis even for a beginner that intends to keep learning the sport. Your own skis again, IMHO, are much safer than rentals and provide more reassurance overall.


There are lots of great skis out there for women this season.


View attachment 31794

They look nice. BC can teach other ski mf:s a thing or two about top sheet design inmo. Made in Chamonix, right?

 

[Ken_R]

They look nice. BC can teach other ski mf:s a thing or two about top sheet design inmo. Made in Chamonix, right?

The Company is based in Chamonix but the skis are manufactured somewhere else.

 

[Slim]

To answer the original question, yes buy instead of rent. You can get skis of equivalent quality to rental skis for very little money sued or close out. Or you can get a better ski. Either way, you can have it tuned properly and most importantly, have the bindings release tested.

As to the question what skis to get, that depends a lot on her skiing goals. Is she just wanting to become a competent skier who can ski along with you and your group? Or is her goal to focus on technique, improving all the time? The first seems more likely I, given the history.
What about you? Are you honestly willing to stick to easier runs(easy for her!)? All season long?I know that I have a hard time with that, when I go out biking or skiing with less skilled people, I always intend to stick to the easy stuff, but soon enough, it's: " try this, it's not as hard as it looks, you can totally do it".

I am no ski instructor, but I do know that for a lower intermediate, a wide, rockered ski is a LOT easier to ski in soft snow and steeper terrain than the opposite.
So given that you ski in areas with lots of snow, and my hunch that she will want to join you as soon as possible, I would go for the wider, more rockered, more forgiving ski.
Otherwise, skiing harder terrain is very likely to cause her to to do more defensive skiing, more stemming and wedging, more skiing with two separate feet rather than together. Yes, she won't learn precise edge engagement as easily or as well, but I don't hear you saying she wants to start slalom racing, right?

 

[Slim]

The tips are the first part of the ski to interact with the snow going forward, and IMO it's important to get a feel for what they (the tips) are doing. Tip rocker on a groomed run or other relatively hard surface removes that first influence of the tips, and delays it until the skis are tipped far enough over for there to be real pressure at the tip. It's harder to learn how to use the front parts of your skis when they are often not really touching the snow than when they are always firmly touching the snow. If you make a wrong move the tips interact with the snow and you know it; if you make a correct move, the tip interact with the snow and you know it. Yes, with a short turn radius (15 m or less), you will have bumps randomly interacting with the tips when you try to ski straight with no turns at all. So don't do that!
That's my opinion. Other opinions exist (but they are wrong ).

Here is one of those opinions, from the Blister Buyers Guide:

"...is a very good all-mountain performer that also carves well on soft groomers. Its tails are stiff without feeling punishing, and its rocker profile makes it incredibly maneuverable in moguls and trees (it has far more tip and tail splay than any ski in this section)...
And we’d like to see more intermediate skiers getting out on something like this as opposed to flat-tailed skinny rentals that make sense only if you already know how to drive and carve a ski."

​

The same discussion happens in mtb'ing: is it better to learn on a more forgiving tool, or a more punishing one? Will the more forgiving ski allow people to commit to the fall line better and keep their feet together more, or will the more precise ski allow them a better feel for edge engagement and what's happening?

 

[trailtrimmer]

Anything between 72mm and 78mm underfoot, no metal and oriented at the beginner/intermediate market segment.

If she cross country skis, ice skates, mountain bikes or takes part in athletic activities that develop balance, she'll learn quick and may be able to start on a intermediate ski.

 

[silverback]

For a woman that small, for a beginner ski, I'd actually put her on a junior SL ski... 150cm or so. Something like an Elan RCS with a normal freeflex binding would do the trick. This is the perfect learning tool IMO... She doesn't need width yet, she will only be skiing groomed snow anyway. Get her on something narrow and soft so she can start to feel how the ski reacts when it is tipped on edge. That kind of ski has a HUGE performance envelope and will support her groomer habit as she improves... then you can buy her a wider ski down the road for when she's ready to venture off piste. I saw that type of ski on eBay last fall for dirt cheap... so you won't be out a lot of money for a setup like that.

+1 here. My wife made great strides on 155 citizen SL skis (Head i.sl), not much different from 150 jr SL skis. Another bit of anecdotal evidence...my teenage god-daughter struggled for a couple days on rental equipment so I put her on my son's slalom skis and it was like magic, she really got the feel for tipping the ski. They were probably too small for her to ski all season on them but that day they really worked. As she gets a feel for it, she can trade for something more off-piste oriented or, better yet, keep the SL's for groomer days and get a more off-piste oriented pair for those days.