Non Region Specific Indy tells resorts it's them or Cooper

[dbostedo]

I wonder if the local resorts that dropped Cooper will see any requests for refunds for already purchased passes if people bought them planning to use them at Cooper as a large part of their decision.

I’m also curious as to whether there will be any anti-competitive behavior fall out legally. If I was a lawyer for Cooper I’d be looking at that seriously.

That's a good question... and changing things after purchase is something that ski passes have run into before; I think there was a parking rules change (Palisades maybe?) after people had bought passes and a refund had to be issued for those that wanted it after they got sued.

 

[Itinerant skier]

Yes they are - of course they're selling a product; It's a ski pass. Whether they own resorts or not, they're selling a product that competes directly with Ikon Pass and Epic Pass (and MCP and, apparently, Ski Cooper).

No, they are most definitely not. Go to ww.indyskipass.com and try to buy one.

You can't.

They took their pass off sale in early April. Three months before Cooper's even went on sale. There's some vague promises that if they secure enough additional capacity through more resorts, they'll reopen sales.

 

[dbostedo]

No, they are most definitely not. Go to ww.indyskipass.com and try to buy one.

You can't.

They took their pass off sale in early April. There's some vague promises that if they secure enough additional capacity through more resorts, they'll reopen sales.

Oh... you meant right now. I thought you meant in general.

So yes, they're sold out. At some point Ikon and Epic also cut off sales, but it's later in the off-season. That's more a matter of timing, than a change in concept.

That being said, it IS a good point (and maybe what you were getting at?) that if they're sold out, how does changing the pass access, or changing Cooper's pass access, benefit them this season? Hmm...

 

[cantunamunch]

Oh... you meant right now. I thought you meant in general.

So yes, they're sold out. At some point Ikon and Epic also cut off sales, but it's later in the off-season. That's more a matter of timing, than a change in concept.

That being said, it IS a good point (and maybe what you were getting at?) that if they're sold out, how does changing the pass access, or changing Cooper's pass access, benefit them this season? Hmm...

Gives them bigger clout. And advantages them in pricing for *next* season, which will be negotiated in short order.

 

[fatbob]

Sounds a lot like Indy being strong-arming wankers. Not a great brand image for cutesy non- corporate resorts to want to associate with.

 

[Tricia]

I want to say that Cooper reciprocal pass has been going on for 10 or more years. Monarch had one too back then.

Monarch still reciprocates with a few, including Loveland. Some of our usual Colorado Crew spend time at Monarch because they have the Loveland pass.
Screenshot of site Pass page partner resorts.

Season Passes - Monarch Mountain

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

^^^ I notice Copper is still a partner and is not one with black out dates

 

[crosscountry]

^^^ I notice Copper is still a partner and is not one with black out dates

And Alterra hasn't yet strongarm Copper to drop their reciprocal relation with Monarch!

 

[SKI-3PO]

Indy is sold out…until they decide they want to sell more in the fall. It’s just a game they’re playing to increase demand.

 

[New2]

Cooper has been partnering with these other resorts for a long time, certainly before Indy was developed. (I think Indy started in 2019?)
You'd think that would have been addressed prior to Indy taking those resorts on. And IMHO its good for skiing to have multiple pass partnerships for these small resorts.

Cooper's been partnering with a lot of other resorts for a long time, but it's also kept adding more partners. And the biggy that preceded this move was Cooper joining Powder Alliance. Cooper's long sold at least some passes to people with no intention of visiting Cooper itself, but the potential scope has increased considerably in recent years.

For my own personal situation, I'm planning to pay for day tickets/use whatever deals I can find next season, until the pass-and-a-half sales next spring. But Cooper joining Powder Alliance might change my mind: assuming Lookout re-ups with Cooper, I could get 9 local days for the $379 cost of a Cooper pass (3 at Lookout via their direct reciprocal deal with Cooper; 3 at Mt. Spokane with the Freedom Pass; and now 3 at Silver with Powder Alliance).

This makes it pretty tempting for me, in Spokane, to buy a Cooper pass. A much better deal than Indy. And that's even though I definitely don't intend to ski Cooper. I don't plan to visit Colorado this coming season, but if I do for some reason, holding a Cooper pass, I'd still use it to try Loveland, Monarch, Sunlight, and/or Powderhorn ahead of Cooper. So I can understand the concern from Indy, and the sentiment that what Cooper's doing is actually taking money out of their "partners'" pockets (those 9 free days I'd get locally are days I'm not paying for a lift ticket or pass locally).

And it's not just Spokane. Cooper's $379 pass comes with 9 free days now in Indy's own Portland backyard (3 Skibowl, 3 Timberline, 3 White Pass); 12 days in the central Sierras (3 China Peak, 3 Dodge Ridge, 3 Sierra-at-Tahoe, 3 Diamond Peak); 15 days in Wisconsin; 18 days in New England (down from 21 days before Dartmouth left at Indy's bidding), and so forth.

I wonder if the local resorts that dropped Cooper will see any requests for refunds for already purchased passes if people bought them planning to use them at Cooper as a large part of their decision.

I’m also curious as to whether there will be any anti-competitive behavior fall out legally. If I was a lawyer for Cooper I’d be looking at that seriously.

Indy's timing sucks, no doubt--some number of customers will be mad either way the resorts decide. But I'd imagine refund requests are pretty few and far between... Cooper just isn't that exciting a destination. And I don't think Cooper will pursue legal action... too much potential for embarrassment/burning bridges with other partners.

 

[4aprice]

We (Granby Ranch) had an agreement with Cooper and I was looking forward to using it, then it suddenly disappeared. They have added an agreement with Loveland which is nice but I'm bummed that Cooper is gone. Now I am beginning to understand why its gone.

 

[crosscountry]

I'd imagine refund requests are pretty few and far between... Cooper just isn't that exciting a destination.

If there's any refund request, it would be those who purchased Cooper pass directly (with no intention of ever skiing at Cooper)

 

[Jenny]

Not necessarily - if the Michigan hills I bought the Indy for dropped out in favor of keeping Cooper, I'd have been asking Indy for a refund. I did confirm that the two locals on the list were definitely keeping Indy this year, but you bet I'm checking next year before I buy Indy again.

 

[Itinerant skier]

Oh... you meant right now. I thought you meant in general.

So yes, they're sold out. At some point Ikon and Epic also cut off sales, but it's later in the off-season. That's more a matter of timing, than a change in concept.

That being said, it IS a good point (and maybe what you were getting at?) that if they're sold out, how does changing the pass access, or changing Cooper's pass access, benefit them this season? Hmm...

That and it goes directly to Indy's insistence that Cooper's low price is somehow harming them. Indy insists its margins are razor thin...so thin they cutoff sales in early April to avoid overcrowding. By the time both passes are on sale at the same time, Cooper will be at least $479 and likely $579.

We (Granby Ranch) had an agreement with Cooper and I was looking forward to using it, then it suddenly disappeared. They have added an agreement with Loveland which is nice but I'm bummed that Cooper is gone. Now I am beginning to understand why its gone.

I hope you communicate to Granby Ranch your disappointment in this decision.

 

[motogreg]

Agree this is disappointing from Indy.

 

[Tricia]

Cooper's been partnering with a lot of other resorts for a long time, but it's also kept adding more partners. And the biggy that preceded this move was Cooper joining Powder Alliance. Cooper's long sold at least some passes to people with no intention of visiting Cooper itself, but the potential scope has increased considerably in recent years.

For my own personal situation, I'm planning to pay for day tickets/use whatever deals I can find next season, until the pass-and-a-half sales next spring. But Cooper joining Powder Alliance might change my mind: assuming Lookout re-ups with Cooper, I could get 9 local days for the $379 cost of a Cooper pass (3 at Lookout via their direct reciprocal deal with Cooper; 3 at Mt. Spokane with the Freedom Pass; and now 3 at Silver with Powder Alliance).

This makes it pretty tempting for me, in Spokane, to buy a Cooper pass. A much better deal than Indy. And that's even though I definitely don't intend to ski Cooper. I don't plan to visit Colorado this coming season, but if I do for some reason, holding a Cooper pass, I'd still use it to try Loveland, Monarch, Sunlight, and/or Powderhorn ahead of Cooper. So I can understand the concern from Indy, and the sentiment that what Cooper's doing is actually taking money out of their "partners'" pockets (those 9 free days I'd get locally are days I'm not paying for a lift ticket or pass locally).

And it's not just Spokane. Cooper's $379 pass comes with 9 free days now in Indy's own Portland backyard (3 Skibowl, 3 Timberline, 3 White Pass); 12 days in the central Sierras (3 China Peak, 3 Dodge Ridge, 3 Sierra-at-Tahoe, 3 Diamond Peak); 15 days in Wisconsin; 18 days in New England (down from 21 days before Dartmouth left at Indy's bidding), and so forth.


Indy's timing sucks, no doubt--some number of customers will be mad either way the resorts decide. But I'd imagine refund requests are pretty few and far between... Cooper just isn't that exciting a destination. And I don't think Cooper will pursue legal action... too much potential for embarrassment/burning bridges with other partners.

That clears a lot of things up.

 

[Itinerant skier]

Cooper's been partnering with a lot of other resorts for a long time, but it's also kept adding more partners. And the biggy that preceded this move was Cooper joining Powder Alliance. Cooper's long sold at least some passes to people with no intention of visiting Cooper itself, but the potential scope has increased considerably in recent years.

For my own personal situation, I'm planning to pay for day tickets/use whatever deals I can find next season, until the pass-and-a-half sales next spring. But Cooper joining Powder Alliance might change my mind: assuming Lookout re-ups with Cooper, I could get 9 local days for the $379 cost of a Cooper pass (3 at Lookout via their direct reciprocal deal with Cooper; 3 at Mt. Spokane with the Freedom Pass; and now 3 at Silver with Powder Alliance).

This makes it pretty tempting for me, in Spokane, to buy a Cooper pass. A much better deal than Indy. And that's even though I definitely don't intend to ski Cooper. I don't plan to visit Colorado this coming season, but if I do for some reason, holding a Cooper pass, I'd still use it to try Loveland, Monarch, Sunlight, and/or Powderhorn ahead of Cooper. So I can understand the concern from Indy, and the sentiment that what Cooper's doing is actually taking money out of their "partners'" pockets (those 9 free days I'd get locally are days I'm not paying for a lift ticket or pass locally).......

Isn't it up to the management at those resorts (Loveland, Monarch, Sunlight) to determine if those giveaways are in their best interest? Or is it up to Indy pass to determine that from their office on Oregon?

 

[tball]

I hope this doesn't hurt Ski Cooper too badly. They were getting free money from the deal. Too good to last, selling season passes that some folks likely would never use.

Monarch is different in that 1) their season pass is much more expensive than Cooper, 2) the number of partners is much smaller, and 3) those partner resorts are likely to be used as intended, with Monarch the primary area and the others an additional benefit.

 

[Philpug]

Monarch is different in that 1) their season pass is much more expensive than Cooper, 2) the number of partners is much smaller, and 3) those partner resorts are likely to be used as intended, with Monarch the primary area and the others an additional benefit.

Not too dissimilar to Mt. Rose. For an independent area, Mt. Rose is almost as expensive as Epic or Ikon and they have no plan to go to a shared pass. Recently Doug Fish/Indy was talking to them, again and were turned away, again.

 

[Itinerant skier]

I hope this doesn't hurt Ski Cooper too badly. They were getting free money from the deal. Too good to last, selling season passes that some folks likely would never use.

Monarch is different in that 1) their season pass is much more expensive than Cooper, 2) the number of partners is much smaller, and 3) those partner resorts are likely to be used as intended, with Monarch the primary area and the others an additional benefit.

What free money? Sure, a few people like New2 were buying it without intending to ski Cooper, but Cooper takes on the exposure of giving away three free tickets, without blackout dates, to every passholder at literally dozens of ski resorts. I'm fairly certain far more passholders from Yawgoo Valley and Mcintyre are using their Cooper tix than the other way around. I'm really curious where this bizarre perception that Cooper is rolling in the dough from this comes from?? They're a non-profit, their financials are readily available (unlike say...Indy) and if you look at their tax returns, they show a healthy revenue vs expenses. If you were to compare the amount of "free money" cooper brings in from their passes to the increased pass revenue their partners gain from having Cooper on their passes, it would be fairly trivial.

Monarch is certainly not exempt from people buying their pass primarily for the partner benefits either. It's $200 more, but includes Copper, A-Basin, the MCP mountains and two European options.