DIY tuning vs shop tuning pros and cons

[MikeHunt]

Agreed. One and done on the sidewall planing. One pair of race skis I owned got tuned so much (youthful exuberance) that the sidewalls needed a second go-round.

That's great I didn't know this. I could eliminate sidewall cutter from my list. New tune process is:

• Buy new skis
• Get shop to pare back sidewall by 7 degrees and IR wax it
• DIY liquid spray everyday
• DIY razor tune touch up everyday
• Shop IR wax every 7 to 10 days
• Shop base grind and reset base and side edge and 7 degree plane the sidewall again, if necessary, on 25th day.
• Rock skis by day 50
• Rinse and repeat

Base bevel meter would just be for curiosity and I may not even do it all.

 

[KingGrump]

Wow, speaking of paralysis by analysis.
Definitely sucking all the fun out of skiing by way overthinking.

I never used a bevel meter or measured base bevel. My plan if the base degree is off or if ptex concave or convex is to see if I can feel a difference. I haven't thought what to do if there is a difference in feel.

If you can't tell the difference, there is no difference regardless what the numbers are.

7 degree is good enough that it can be done once and I never have to worry about removing sidewall for the remainder of the life of the ski?

Cutting the sidewall with a panzer file on 7° guide will last couple edge sharpening by hand.

 

[MikeHunt]

If you can't tell the difference, there is no difference regardless what the numbers are.

Regardless if I would be able to tell a difference or not, it would still up to a shop to do something about it as it's ski base related.

 

[MikeHunt]

Also, don't know why folks are saying it's paralysis. My brain doesn't feel paralyzed analyzing it.

I just removed the most difficult and tiring parts of tuning (sidewall planing and solid wax scraping and brushing) and pared back my tools to just a brush with felt, liquid wax, and razor tune. That's pretty damn good analysis!

 

[Tom K.]

Also, don't know why folks are saying it's paralysis.

Really just one "folk".

You've got a plan. It can change, if need be. Proceed!

 

[KingGrump]

Also, don't know why folks are saying it's paralysis. My brain doesn't feel paralyzed analyzing it

Exactly, too much thinking (and talking about it) and not enough doing.

I just removed the most difficult and tiring parts of tuning (sidewall and scraping and brushing) and pared back my tools to just a brush with felt, liquid wax, and razor tune. That's pretty damn good analysis!

Jut give away half of the tool set and you will find out what really matters.

 

[snwbrdr]

It's no different from DIY auto maintenance vs take it to a shop.

Unless you spend the significant amount of money to have all the equipment of a shop, there are things that out of bounds for a DIY job, that you have to send it into a shop to do. At that point, of investment to equal a shop in equipment, you might as well start a business to do ski tuning, to re-coup those expenses.

But.. as a DIY, you get to choose for instance, what wax you want to use, vs... what the shop wax they will use.

When it comes to skills, everyone starts as a noob at some point... including staff at the best shops, the only difference is the learning curve based on the amount of skis they will work on vs the DIY maintaining their own gear.

 

[MikeHunt]

I've unknowingly or perhaps subconsciously chosen to keep DIY the easy tune tasks.

Daily liquid wax - this a 3 minute job at best with just a spray, spread with felt, and 2 to 3 brush passes per ski. No doubt this is a DIY job as spending 30 minutes to 1 hour going to a shop everyday only for them to do a 3 minute job is time not well spent.

Daily razor tune sharpening - this is a 5 minute job at best with razor tune. If it were with bevel guides, clamps, and stones, it would be a 15-20 minute job and I wouldn't do it. Thank God for razor tune.

7 degree sidewall cut - not a lot of physical effort here but needs attention to detail, keen eye, and steady hand. I could do it or leave it to a shop. Going with the shop as this is just a twice a season task at most and can be coincided with a shop wax job.

Iron on solid wax or IR wax - is at least a 1 hour job with a bit of physical effort and lots of mess from wax scrape and dust from brushing or roto. Best left to a shop.

Anything base related - grind and reset best left to a shop with 500,000 dollar equipment.

Ptex repair and edge stone hits - as this can be a rare affair, best left to a shop and can be coincided with a shop IR wax.

 

[oldschoolskier]

You can do great tunes with less than $100.00 worth of tools and poor tunes with 6 figure tooling.

It all comes down to the skill and attention of the tuner.

The big difference between skill and equipment, equipment just makes it easier and potentially more consistent. Skill on the other hand gets the results no matter the equipment.

 

[SlideWright]

^^^^^^ THIS
KISS & strive for excellence and consistency, not perfection and just go ski 'em if they look close.

Wow, speaking of paralysis by analysis.
Definitely sucking all the fun out of skiing by way overthinking.

If you can't tell the difference, there is no difference regardless what the numbers are.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recently read that the accuracy range of a machine tune is +/- 0.2mm or 0.2 deg. I've measured along edges with a digital angle finder and a true bar after very carefully resetting zero and found there is definitely variability along the edges. Same for bases.

If one knew the actual geometry of these variable edges (not that you could measure accurately) would you leave the bench (or send them back to the shop) and just go ski or get hung up on the numbers that you will never feel?

Pet peeve: And if you can get all hung up on slight edge and base geometry variability that makes no difference, how can you be OK with half-assed waxing and glide?

 

[SlideWright]

7 degree sidewall cut - not a lot of physical effort here but needs attention to detail, keen eye, and steady hand. I could do it or leave it to a shop. Going with the shop as this is just a twice a season task at most and can be coincided with a shop wax job.

Ptex repair and edge stone hits - as this can be a rare affair, best left to a shop and can be coincided with a shop IR wax.

Cutting the sidewall with a panzer file on 7° guide will last couple edge sharpening by hand.

Back filing works fine but may take more effort and needs to be done more frequently than using a side wall planer with variable cutting blades, especially if you will be using a machine edge tuner vs being able to micro manage and maintain edges by hand.

Side Wall Planer with round cutting blade

Edge sharpening, base grinding and waxing should be a function of the performance and condition of edges, base and wax relative to the snow type and mileage, not a date on a calendar or number of days. Maybe less is more and not much is needed other times, you might need to get after it more frequently. Like this year with abrasive snows and not a lot of soft snow, for instance.

 

[Tom K.]

Daily liquid wax

I've been on the every other day liquid plan for two seasons, with an occasional hot wax to fortify things.

Results seem fine, but I'm running low on liquid/spray wax, and will probably give the Dominator paste wax a whirl next season.

The endless quest -- for me -- to find an truly viable replacement for hot waxing, which I've grown to despise, after 55 years of it.

 

[SlideWright]

I've been on the every other day liquid plan for two seasons, with an occasional hot wax to fortify things.

Results seem fine, but I'm running low on liquid/spray wax, and will probably give the Dominator paste wax a whirl next season.

The endless quest -- for me -- to find an truly viable replacement for hot waxing, which I've grown to despise, after 55 years of it.

You might try using a harder base prep & WOTD 1st. Go colder than you think. You may be able to get up to 6 days or more, depending on the snow abrasiveness. Then you could try liquid or paste over a hard base wax so if that wears off, you should still have decent glide.

 

[BlueGrin]

• Less QC because the vast majority of people do not know what the hell they are doing and can do more damage than good.

Know your limitations. I learned a ton when I was a teenager, but when I got started again, I was leery of remaking the same mistakes that I had learned from the first time, so I was way more cautious. After a few years, I figured out what I could handle and worked my way up from there. But jumping in and doing that damage is a valuable teacher if you can afford to scrap the skis you're working on, or chalk up a bad day on the slopes with an awful tune.

I guess my hesitation with going full DIY is the mess that waxing makes

You can buy a cheap felt "Motorcycle Garage Mat" for about $25, and it'll catch any wax scrapings. Takes 30 seconds to shake it into the trash.

 

[Tom K.]

You might try using a harder base prep & WOTD 1st.

I'm sure I'll figure out what WOTD is right after I post......

 

[Tom K.]

You can buy a cheap felt "Motorcycle Garage Mat" for about $25

Link to your particular favorite?

It's time to go skiing, and I don't want to end up in an Internet Black Hole!

 

[SlideWright]

It's time to go skiing, and I don't want to end up in an Internet Black Hole!

Same. Have fun!

WOTD=wax of the day

(wax for coldest temp the night before)

edit: maybe it should be WOTN?

 

[BlueGrin]

Link to your particular favorite?

It's time to go skiing, and I don't want to end up in an Internet Black Hole!

Don't even know. I bought a stack of them from Amazon years ago when we had an incontinent, elderly cat. I just had them laying around and started using them for waxing. They're pretty interchangeable - meant to catch oil and have a waterproof backing.

 

[GB_Ski]

That's great I didn't know this. I could eliminate sidewall cutter from my list. New tune process is:

• Buy new skis
• Get shop to pare back sidewall by 7 degrees and IR wax it
• DIY liquid spray everyday
• DIY razor tune touch up everyday
• Shop IR wax every 7 to 10 days
• Shop base grind and reset base and side edge and 7 degree plane the sidewall again, if necessary, on 25th day.
• Rock skis by day 50
• Rinse and repeat

Base bevel meter would just be for curiosity and I may not even do it all.

Are you really going to do this? If yes, good for you. This is Sheldon Cooper level planning.

The sarcastic side of my brain really wonders what your car maintenance schedule looks like?

 

[oldschoolskier]

Here is the big secret in buying tools (any tools for that matter).

Cheap as possible hopefully that last the single intended use, if they last your lifetime, bonus great deal.

Top of the line expensive, know what you are getting (you hope and that they last), ideally lifetime purchase. If they don't it sucks.

Somewhere in between with the same expectations.

As I have gained experience in my current field I am drifting towards the high end (it pays off) but I made my error with less costly tools (less painful on the pocket book).

So for ski tuning buy start with the minimum, iron (I still use a cheap walmart iron today), plastic scraper, cheap brush, file and one edge guide (3 degree takes care of 98% of the setups) and a couple of thick elastics to hold your brakes (get them from your veggies).

As you progress add to your kit.

Flat base grind and 1 base bevel is an easy request for most shops. (Later a flat grind and base prep no base bevel should be the request)

Waxing is the easiest starting point.
Sides are next
After that you are getting in to more tools and advanced tuning.

Learn to file (no diamond stone at this point) without leaving a burr, yes there is a right way and a wrong way.

Learn to remove burrs correctly.

Learn not to remove too much metal.

Takes time and practice.

I ski ice conditions 98% of the time (southern Ontario Canada) and I sharpen maybe every 10-20 days, only touch up to remove burrs caused by debris in the snow.

Slidewrights shop seems to have all the simple basic right up to how much have you got to spend.