Would There Still be a Market for Rear Entry Boots

[Bad Bob]

It would be an interesting design challenge for a boot designer to engineer and build a "modern" rear entry ski boot. Molds must be incredibly expensive today, but to offer a easy to fit comfortable boot that is easy on and off might pay off very well.

Consider the rental boot fleet that exists in the world. Starting skiers with warm comfortable feet would bring back more beginners and help perpetuate the sport. Might also make the design an attractive choice for a first purchased boot. With all of the fitted lining systems used today there should be a reasonable performance compromise for fit and function.

The industry just needs to find a financially flush ski boot company that wants to risk loosing (OR MAKING) a lot of money. The Board of Directors may not like that; so maybe one from CO, WA, or OR where they think at a higher level.

 

[Philpug]

It would be an interesting design challenge for a boot designer to engineer and build a "modern" rear entry ski boot. Molds must be incredibly expensive today, but to offer a easy to fit comfortable boot that is easy on and off might pay off very well.

Consider the rental boot fleet that exists in the world. Starting skiers with warm comfortable feet would bring back more beginners and help perpetuate the sport. Might also make the design an attractive choice for a first purchased boot. With all of the fitted lining systems used today there should be a reasonable performance compromise for fit and function.

The industry just needs to find a financially flush ski boot company that wants to risk loosing (OR MAKING) a lot of money. The Board of Directors may not like that; so maybe one from CO, WA, or OR where they think at a higher level.

A rear entry boot will have two purposes, to make it easier for new skiers and retaining advancing age skiers that are willing to sacrifice Nth degree in performance for ease and comfort.

 

[Goose]

@DanoT I think you're right in your thought process. I also think that the rear entry boot really went away as shaped skis became more popular because we started to ski differently and needed to control the flex of the boot more as we learned to engage the tip of these new fangled skis.

That being said, I also think there is a possibility that we haven't seen the last of the rear entry.

@Goose maybe top racers poo poo'd the rear entry boots, but you sure saw a lot of them in Greg Stump movies. Those guys were pretty good skiers

Yea, sort of a point that many of all abilities did where and use them successfully for quite some time.

I think even if manufacturers began to make them again and also if made them quite capable and competent at the higher ability levels, a percentage of people at those levels would still resist. Some would be an honest preference of 4 buckle, but some would also be ego driven. Outside of those I think there would be a number of happy campers of any level that would gladly where them.

I don't know, can they make them right? Im just throwing things out there. But if so they could hold a good share of the market again. Though I do think manufacturers would probably be careful to make their model selections only be suggested for beginners and intermediate and perhaps intermediate/advance lines at most . Even if they felt they can make a given model design to suit advanced/expert or expert skiers do they dare (even with competent design) offer that line as well?

I dont think flex and knee position would be any issue. I think those things are fixable. But Could they figure out that little bit of disconnect between foot and one piece shell? I mean every inner snuggling adjustment would then pull the inners away from the one piece bottom shell. So how does one prevent that disconnect without 4buckle or at lest 3 and a split top shell to fold over foot? perhaps a compromise of a split top one-large buckle over foot and then the snap down traditional rear entry clamp. Along with the other snuggling cable fitter gadgets just maybe that gets the job done. But im no engineer nor any boot expert..lol

 

[Goose]

A rear entry boot will have two purposes, to make it easier for new skiers and retaining advancing age skiers that are willing to sacrifice Nth degree in performance for ease and comfort.

I think its possible many in betweeners would use them as well. I say that because many happily did that years ago anyway. maybe many didnt know any better but still they were happy. I just don't think most skiers (even those of good ability) are skiing at a maximum demand level and conditions all the time anyway. Some are but I think plenty are not. I also think most people are not at the ability we think we are..lol . I also think a huge chuck of skiers are only a few to several days a year participants. And while many of them may be quite advanced ability wise they too just may not truly "need" more than what a good modern rear entry could possibly give them and may be just as happy with them and their practicality. And maybe even if simply by honest default of not knowing any better.

 

[Jilly]

Someone made a hybrid. Buckles on the bottom and back strap to hold the shin. Salomon or Rossi?

 

[Frankly]

I got these since-discontinued 3-buckle Nordicas precisely so I could continue skiing. Price was no object, I was perfectly willing to spend whatever it took to ski.

When I ski the same mph as my age I sometimes wish for my old Langes since a compression can put my knee into the ski's top skin (at least it feels like that) but for 98% of the time they ski fine because they fit. I'll spare you the graphic photos of my feet (there is another thread with them) but I've been told I was a top boot fitter's biggest challenge.

The critical thing is that I can get into these boots and take them off. I simply could not get into my Langes on some days unless I heated them for 20 minutes and did some pre-emptive self medication.

Modern boot manufacturing and materials are significantly better than just ten years ago.

 

[Eleeski]

I'm not sure where the idea that rear entry boots are beginner boots came from. My previously mentioned Raichle boots were marketed to me as performance boots and lived up to the marketing. Scott boots were coveted and used by the best skiers I knew. There are so many factors in boot design that singling out one feature as defining it as a low performance boot is absurd.

OK, I've had some really crappy rear entry boots. But I've had worse conventional boots. Creative people are working on boot design. Don't prejudice them.

Eric

 

[Karl B]

Level 9 Sports still carries Alpina rear entry boots for those that just have to have them!

 

[Chris Walker]

When I went to Japan last year, I noticed a lot of people in new-looking rear-entry boots. Some markets are still buying them apparently.

 

[Goose]

I'm not sure where the idea that rear entry boots are beginner boots came from. My previously mentioned Raichle boots were marketed to me as performance boots and lived up to the marketing. Scott boots were coveted and used by the best skiers I knew. There are so many factors in boot design that singling out one feature as defining it as a low performance boot is absurd.

OK, I've had some really crappy rear entry boots. But I've had worse conventional boots. Creative people are working on boot design. Don't prejudice them.

Eric

I sort of agree with you and sort of what I have mentioned back in the day. They were used by many of all abilities. But as i mentioned early I think from what I recall and have found is that there were issues at the top levels (namely pros) who didn't like them. Whether those gripes were valid or not who's to say but the person/.people actually making the claims from experience. I could understand the "disconnect" feeling of top performing skiers may have felt because it makes sense that the one-piece bottom shell did not strap itself around the foot. Just how much did that really affect the average resort goer even if of great ability? IDK. But i would question that most skiers didn't need the perfection quite to that degree where as it was detrimental to their performance. But who am I to say?

None the less it was imo a trickle down affect. People want what the pros want and don't want what the pros don't care for regardless of whether or not it may be practical as well as totally capable for them. Im not to say they were totally capable for everyone nor can i say they were as good as 4buckle but I do know they were popular among all abilities and did the job well for a lot of skiers for a number of years.. I would think they could do it again and of course be even better then before. But this notion that they would only be for beginners and intermediates would be a very hard one to break. The only way would be to see them used at the highest and professional levels. other than that they would always be considered lower grade even if they are totally capable of driving higher ability level skiers just fine.

 

[Goose]

Level 9 Sports still carries Alpina rear entry boots for those that just have to have them!

I thought for kids only.

 

[WheatKing]

I think the fundamental problem isn't that there isn't rear entry boots.. but that most current boots for some of the population are difficult to put on and take off. I think rear entry will always suffer with heal issues due to the way that the boots work. a fixed heal cup is pretty much a necessity as it's the stabilizing point between the ball of the foot and the shin (other major contact or force points) in order to lock the heel in you need a small opening to keep the overlap and potential for liner bunching small.. but large enough to put your foot through. If you could ski in bare feet.. you'd basically need a snowboard binding with a fixed forward lean back and a power strap. A front entry boot would be ideal.. but the logistics are well.. we're not there yet..

 

[Goose]

I think the fundamental problem isn't that there isn't rear entry boots.. but that most current boots for some of the population are difficult to put on and take off. I think rear entry will always suffer with heal issues due to the way that the boots work. a fixed heal cup is pretty much a necessity as it's the stabilizing point between the ball of the foot and the shin (other major contact or force points) in order to lock the heel in you need a small opening to keep the overlap and potential for liner bunching small.. but large enough to put your foot through. If you could ski in bare feet.. you'd basically need a snowboard binding with a fixed forward lean back and a power strap. A front entry boot would be ideal.. but the logistics are well.. we're not there yet..

But when the boot is closed up why couldn't /wouldn't the shape of the mold hold the heel down anyway? Once closed up its still becomes a fixed heel cup. No?

 

[T-Square]

Rear entry boots are just the thing for setting up an adaptive skier who has foot or ankle issues. I had a student with ‘locked’ ankles, rear entry boots can be modified to open WIDE to allow easy on and off.

 

[Goose]

I wonder....what about inflatable inners on rear entry boots? Would that then create all the hold needed and maybe fix other issues. Not exactly new tech and probably would have ben done already if it didn't have issues of their own.

 

[cantunamunch]

A rear entry boot will have two purposes, to make it easier for new skiers and retaining advancing age skiers that are willing to sacrifice Nth degree in performance for ease and comfort.

On that second point, Raichle / Lange could revive the RRS.




(Yes, I'm aware of all the downsides, RH explained them quite clearly).

 

[kimberlin]

I wonder....what about inflatable inners on rear entry boots? Would that then create all the hold needed and maybe fix other issues. Not exactly new tech and probably would have ben done already if it didn't have issues of their own.

Sounds like you're looking for a new day job?

 

[cantunamunch]

I wonder....what about inflatable inners on rear entry boots? Would that then create all the hold needed and maybe fix other issues. Not exactly new tech and probably would have ben done already if it didn't have issues of their own.

Has been done already in overlap boots - Technica Air Shell line comes to mind. Yes, it has problems. But the bigger issue is that its primary benefit is to lower cost of entry - it doesn't provide greater comfort than conventionally mouldable liners, it does provide some comfort for cheap and marginally convenient.

So the market is essentially high-volume foot diabetics who don't have upfront budget or patience to get a conventional shell and liner done.

 

[Mike Thomas]

Goose, you keep explaining exactly why rear entry boots disappeared... then you seem to (virtually) scratch your head, wondering 'why' they went away. I don't understand.
Trying to sell a ski boot by saying "it's not that good, but it's good enough for YOU" is... not a good business plan. I wish it was, but it isn't.

I have been saying that Dodge should have built a carbon rear entry boot, not a carbon 'plug' boot since they introduced their boot. I am correct about this, but no one listens to me.

 

[Bad Bob]

Screwing off at work for a few; so how about a rear entry with a rear tongue and 2 piece shell? An upper cuff hinged to a lower body to avoid spread and pushing down on upper foot, and a lower body. 2 buckles on the lower to secure the foot and heel and 1 buckle for the upper to close the cuff up?

Back to work on something that pays now.