Why does my Nylon brush not seem to do much?

[focker]

A little background. I've been tuning skis for 4-5 years and feel I'm fairly decent at it.

The one area that frustrates me is post scrap brushing. I use a (Very) sharp scraper and get every bit of wax off I can. When I go to use my nylon brush however it just doesn't feel like it's doing much. First off I see almost no wax being removed using the brush. I do see the surface slightly change from more dull to more shiny. I also see spots when brushing where perhaps I didn't get completely all the wax off when scraping (hazy spots). I'll often then go back and scrape those small spots again.

Am I using the wrong brush perhaps? I know I'm applying a lot of downwards pressure onto the ski and going over it several times. Just seems like it doesn't do much.

I'm using a smaller swix nylon brush with short (1/4"?) stiff bristles. I try to clear it out by scraping it across a piece of metal to clear it out as well.

Thoughts?

 

[Primoz]

From your description I don't really see any signs that brush doesn't work. From this what you wrote, I got impression your brush does exactly what it's suppose to do

 

[Doug Briggs]

My finishing process is to scrape, brass brush then nylon brush. The brass brush makes quick work of the excess and results in a uniform finish. The nylon brightens it up into a nice glossy look.

 

[Tom K.]

My finishing process is to scrape, brass brush then nylon brush. The brass brush makes quick work of the excess and results in a uniform finish. The nylon brightens it up into a nice glossy look.

Agree 100%. Many purists decry the brash brush, but I believe it's all in how much touch you've got. Don't overdo it, and it's a wonderful tool.

@focker, you do know that nylon brushes don't last forever, right? FWIW, I developed some goofy shoulder issue last year and bought one of these to reduce stress and save some time:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IET64G8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[SlideWright]

Brushes are typically rated as stiff or soft. The shorter the bristle, the stiffer the brush. Stiff brushes have bristles around 5mm while softer, 10mm.

A stiff nylon is useful for general cleaning and wax removal, while a soft nylon is generally for final polishing after the wax removal is performed by a stiffer brush, usually brass and/or horse hair.

 

[flbufl]

Maybe try the Steel X-Fine Brush as your second brush? I found it is better than nylon brush.

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/13620098587205477059

 

[focker]

My finishing process is to scrape, brass brush then nylon brush. The brass brush makes quick work of the excess and results in a uniform finish. The nylon brightens it up into a nice glossy look.

I could see how a brass brush would work better. My swix brass brush has nylon around the edges but I currently only use it for pre-wax work. I will try using it with a light touch next time after scraping.

I'm also considering just buying a nylon roto-brush as I do 3-4 pairs of skis a week and it would be a lot less work overall.

intersting note: My sons race skis are new and have great structure to them obviously and when doing them I did notice a bigger chance in the appearance of the surface when I brushed them post scrape than I did on my other skis which don't have as good of a structure.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I use a steel brush for pre-wax brushing. It is aggressive. You don't have to be light with the brass. You don't want to be able to actually see wax on your skis. You want to remove the surface wax throughout the structure.

I'd get a brass roto instead of a nylon if I was only going to get one roto brush. The brass brush does the heavy lifting. Nylon is a finish brush and as such doesn't do much. It is much more important to remove excess wax than it is to polish it, in terms of ski performance.

Note that 'my' rotos are at the shop and not actually mine. At home I have a large oval brass and a single half copper, half nylon brush. When I wax at home, I scrape, brass then nylon, all by hand. Not nearly as quick and easy as the shop rotos, but I get a similar result. I put a lot of energy into the brass brush and just pretty up with the nylon, hence why I'd get a brass roto before a nylon.

 

[Primoz]

Brass brush is for use before waxing, and never after waxing After you scrape wax off it's just nylon or horsehair/wild boar brushes. Nylon is normally used for hard waxes, horse hair/wild boar brushes for powders. But it depends a bit, as when it goes for 0.01sec you get a bit more into this, and there's actually different brushes to be used for different temperatures or different sort of snow. But for normal use, brass is first, then waxing, scraping and nylon brush to finish.

 

[Fishbowl]

I allow the snow to do my brushing for me on the first run.

 

[Jacques]

Brass brush is for use before waxing, and never after waxing After you scrape wax off it's just nylon or horsehair/wild boar brushes. Nylon is normally used for hard waxes, horse hair/wild boar brushes for powders. But it depends a bit, as when it goes for 0.01sec you get a bit more into this, and there's actually different brushes to be used for different temperatures or different sort of snow. But for normal use, brass is first, then waxing, scraping and nylon brush to finish.

Never say never.
Me myself and I always use steel, brass, bronze post waxing.
Different strokes for different folks. The number of strokes and pressure only the brusher can decide.
Clear the structure of the base of wax however it works for you.
There is no ONLY one way. It's not rocket science.

 

[Atomicman]

Brass brush is for use before waxing, and never after waxing After you scrape wax off it's just nylon or horsehair/wild boar brushes. Nylon is normally used for hard waxes, horse hair/wild boar brushes for powders. But it depends a bit, as when it goes for 0.01sec you get a bit more into this, and there's actually different brushes to be used for different temperatures or different sort of snow. But for normal use, brass is first, then waxing, scraping and nylon brush to finish.

Primoz has it right. Brass is for pre-waxing. I use stiff horsehair for first brush after waxing then nylon to finish! Of course I uses Rotos, but same order!

 

[Atomicman]

From Race Place:
Waxing is easy and you need only a few basic supplies.

1. CLEAN SKI BASE
   Clean your ski base by scraping with a acrylic wax scraper to remove old wax and dirt from the surface. (Use base cleaners sparingly as they tend to dry out and deteriorate the base material.) Use a brass or bronze base brush aggressively from tip to tail to further clean the base and remove oxidized base material. Follow with a fiber pad to remove any base burn “fuzz" caused by abrasive snow.
2. APPLY WAX
   Liquid or paste waxes may increase glide for a short time, however they quickly wear off and don't protect your base. Hot waxing is best. Simply hold the bar of wax on the base of the iron allowing melted wax to drip onto your ski base. Set the iron temperature so wax flows easily, but doesn't "smoke" the wax. Iron the wax into the base for 30 - 45 seconds to spread the wax and allow it to penetrate into the base. NOTE: Keep the iron moving to prevent damage to the ski.
3. COOL AND SCRAPE
   Let wax cool to room temperature. Scrape off excess wax with an acrylic scraper leaving a very thin layer on the base. You want the wax IN the base and not ON the base.
4. BRUSH AND POLISH FOR MAXIMUM GLIDE
   The final step is to brush surface wax out of base structure/texture with a nylon, bronze**or horsehair***brush. This clears channels for moisture which help break snow surface suction and enhances glide. A final wipe down with fine fiber pad cleans the wax particles caused by brushing and polishes your base further enhancing glide.

**Notice Bronze.....NOT BRASS! ***I use Horsehair

 

[Sibhusky]

I don't pay attention to the material in the brush (nylon vs horsehair) so much as the stiffness. I have five hand brushes and two rotobrushes. Two of the hand brushes are metal and I only use those pre wax to clean out the structure and get any dirt off. Frankly, I don't always use both of them, usually just the steel one. The hand brushes I alternate with the rotobrushes. I know the least stiff brush is a nylon, and really only makes the ski shinier, would NEVER use it as the first brush. I think the other two are two different stiffnesses of horsehair, although maybe one could be nylon, don't know, all I know is that it's in between the other two brushes. Most of the wax removal after scraping is done with the horsehair rotobrush. A few passes with that, then the stiffest hand brush, then more with the rotobrush, then the next brush, then swap rotobrushes for the nylon one, then down to the soft nylon. How many times with each depends on the amount of wax coming up. Harder waxes spend more time with harder brushes.

 

[raytseng]

Consider that a toothbrush also loses it's effectiveness compared to a new toothbrush after some time,
I would throw out that the brush could be worn out if it has been used for awhile.
If you want to try to refresh the brush; more than the dry scraper, try pouring boiling water over your brushes several times into a bucket to melt the wax off. (a kettle (electric or stovetop) comes in handy here)

 

[Atomicman]

I don't pay attention to the material in the brush (nylon vs horsehair) so much as the stiffness. I have five hand brushes and two rotobrushes. Two of the hand brushes are metal and I only use those pre wax to clean out the structure and get any dirt off. Frankly, I don't always use both of them, usually just the steel one. The hand brushes I alternate with the rotobrushes. I know the least stiff brush is a nylon, and really only makes the ski shinier, would NEVER use it as the first brush. I think the other two are two different stiffnesses of horsehair, although maybe one could be nylon, don't know, all I know is that it's in between the other two brushes. Most of the wax removal after scraping is done with the horsehair rotobrush. A few passes with that, then the stiffest hand brush, then more with the rotobrush, then the next brush, then swap rotobrushes for the nylon one, then down to the soft nylon. How many times with each depends on the amount of wax coming up. Harder waxes spend more time with harder brushes.

I think part of the point is that brass is naturally stiffer than bronze. Bronze is mostly copper...very soft

 

[Jacques]

Primoz has it right. Brass is for pre-waxing. I use stiff horsehair for first brush after waxing then nylon to finish! Of course I uses Rotos, but same order!

Darn it! I've been doing it wrong for years! What's wrong with this method?

For the original question I would say buy a new brush.

 

[François Pugh]

Do you have any structure on your bases?

 

[Atomicman]

Darn it! I've been doing it wrong for years! What's wrong with this method?

For the original question I would say buy a new brush.

I still contend that nylon is the last brush, stiff horse hair 1st brush after scraping!

 

[Primoz]

Never say never.
Me myself and I always use steel, brass, bronze post waxing.
Different strokes for different folks. The number of strokes and pressure only the brusher can decide.
Clear the structure of the base of wax however it works for you.
There is no ONLY one way. It's not rocket science.

Sometimes there actually is only one way. But we have been through this somewhere else already, right? I made in my career of serviceman on WC several 10.000 tests. Timed, measured and able to really compare results between each test. You, as you wrote yourself that time, feel things and never did any serious testing. Not waxing, not skis, not structure and not the way how certain workflow influences end result. And end result is only one... ski speed. So when it comes to this, I take timed test over "feel" every single time. I don't feel like arguing, especially not here, but lets make things like they are. Waxing is for better performance. Even in recreational skiing. And when it comes to performance, service guys on World cup, especially in xc skiing, made things to perfection. So even though in recreational skiing, you don't need performance of World cup skis, you still can make things better if you already bother with waxing. So if all tests show one procedure is by far better then other, then yes, sometimes there's one way only. I don't mind if you use steel brush after scraping. It's fine with me, but let's try not to convince everyone else this is right way. As it's not, and it has been tested over and over again and never had better end result.