Which ski will be easier on my knee for hardpack?

[apache]

Just my thoughts I like where @Josh Matta is headed.... look at the characteristics of the ski. A 98mm Renoun or even a 108 WhiteDot will be smoother than a Head Rally/Titan - esp if you heel push.

Heel pushing? Never heard this term before reading through this thread. Is this a rotary technique of some kind-like hitting/slamming the edges? Someone elaborate.

 

[James]

Heel pushing? Never heard this term before reading through this thread. Is this a rotary technique of some kind-like hitting/slamming the edges? Someone elaborate.

Turning by pushing the tails out instead of guiding the tips. Pretty common.

 

[scott43]

I read there was a whole Austrian school of thought that heel turns were da bomb..

 

[bbinder]

If you want to ski your new skis, ski them. Quit if your knee hurts and ski the narrow groomer skis the next day.

Love this. Try one pair of skis. Then try the other pair of skis. Repeat.

 

[cantunamunch]

I read there was a whole Austrian school of thought that heel turns were da bomb..

Is that the school just upriver from the Volkl forest?

 

[Scruffy]

IMHO, I'd stay with the 80mm skis if I were you. De-tune the snot out of the tails if you can't stop the heal pushing, but honestly, I think the heal pushing is probably what is contributing to the hurt in your knee. What you got away with B4 your injury is now your nemesis. I know you're loath to hear any "instructional" advice, but your injury has presented you with, perhaps, an unwelcome opportunity to reinvent your skiing from the ground up. Throw your ego out the window and head to the green slopes and don't come off them until you can carve and gently flatten your skis to release them before initiating the other turn. Also, the ramp angle of those attack bindings are fairly neutral in my opinion ( I own several pair ), This is totally speculation, but as a woman, you may be carrying your body weight in a manor that forces you to exert extra pressure on your quads/pattela to stand tall and forward. Some experimentation on skiing a binding with a more ramp angle might pay off; you'd probably have to demo at a high end shop for that. I know you already admonished someone for offering instructional advice, but I hope you take this in the spirit in which it is intended, that you may return to the rock star skier you were headed to be B4 your injury.

 

[trailtrimmer]

Ever ski a blizzard latigo? 78 underfoot, shape similar to a brahma, easy release, medium radius, hold well yet still play and cheap on closeout. Should be able to setup a set for under $450.

I have one funky knee and I can ski skinny skis all day long on harpack. My GS skis, rally's, Titans, Volkl codes, etc., no problem. My Brahms's or anything wider will let me know by the end of the day, so will my SL skis.

 

[Tony S]

White Dot demos are available at Snow Hut in Lafayette.

Ahh, the Monique whisperer comes out with what everyone in the audience has been waiting for!

 

[Tony S]

Only a new pair of skis can save me!

 

[Tony S]

Seriously, Monique, just 'cause you're not as old as many of us, it doesn't mean you're still young. You gotta do what we all do: Eat better, don't slouch in front of your unit tests, keep spinning, take lots of Vitamin I, run brush gates until you really understand exactly how much you suck, don't drink alcohol, ski your butt off even though it hurts, then go ahead and have a couple of beers and a burger. Understand that life is grand, and wait for grandchildren even though they're highly unlikely. Then you die.

 

[SkiNurse]

Only a new pair of skis can save me!

View attachment 35166

 

[Monique]

So, not sure if anyone caught it earlier, but I've decided to just ski my 80s Saturday and my 96s Sunday (maybe there will be an inch of snow!) and see how it goes. This allows me to sleep an extra 25 minutes Saturday morning, which is all to the good.

Read Josh's post. I'm pretty sure he'd ban you from skis > 80mm to cure the tail pushing.
(4 out of 5 of Josh's clients consider him really tough, but effective * )

I read him as saying it would work to cure my heel pushing tendencies, but wouldn't necessarily be friendly to my needs right now.

Consider a compression knee sleeve. I've found in the past after multiple knee surgeries that it helps. Could have been a. placebo, but nothing wrong with that. Supposedly it does help the muscles to fire more quickly.

Yeah, I used compression all last season. It was necessary. These days, the irritation of it bunching up at the back of the knee seems to outweigh any benefit.

I am tempted to wonder if at least some of that 'too tall' is actually compensation for weak upper legs.

If it is, then being too stiff is a real danger, as in stiff ankles and stiff knees both, as in 'every shock gets passed right up the limb'. Which would be ...exhausting.



Patience patience - as @Brian Finch pointed out in another thread, it takes time and consistency over 12weeks+ to remould tissue.




Worth trying.




It is almost the same for heel-push-resistance purposes. The big differences between the two generally only show up in broken-up 3D snow.

On the up side, having more length up front will be a marginal improvement for shock absorption. On the down side, there will need to be more attention to edge engagement at turn start.

It's probably hard to be sure, but my upright stance hasn't been about strength historically. Since the injury, the upright stance has been influenced by knee pain, not strength. I think.

And yeah, once that leg starts bracing, every 2" bump is a bitch. Time to head in.

I've exhibited a superhuman (superMoniquean) amount of patience.

I don't really think that requiring edge engagement is such a great tradeoff for me right now.

OMG so much stretching. My quad is so stretched that my yoga instructor can't even force a stretch there anymore. I do daily PNF hip flexor stretches (that immediately provide relief, at least in the short term). I do kneecap mobilization exercises (push to one side and hold for a minute; then the other). I roll, so much. Foam roller doesn't do much for me anymore, so I use variously sized and shaped PT balls and a lacrosse ball to dig into tender places, which at this point is mostly just one spot on my quad that won't stop forming a muscle knot. I've had dry needling on that knot, but it just comes back. I also have biweekly massages with someone I've seen for a decade now, I do two hot yoga sessions a week (my knee almost always feels better after), and I'm seeing the MAT guy for another modality (he gave me the PNF stretches as well as a "pin and flex" approach to foam rolling that is helpful).

Tell me about eccentric stretching on a slant board? I think that's a thing I tried and rejected - where you try to increase stress on your knees and force inflammation so that it'll heal itself? That was a thing my PT had me trying, but it hurt too much (ie, I couldn't ski AND do those exercises).

I have had more than one ortho tell me that the knee is the "dumb" joint caught between two smart joints, lol. (ankle & hips)
You are having swelling in the region of the VMO or directly adjacent the patella? (medial side) The cho-pat strap is designed to limit the movement of the patellar tendon. Hence, dampen lateral movement of the patella. Doing slant board eccentric exercises stretches the PT while it's under load. I'm not sure either one of these techniques will help you because I don't have a basic sense of the pathologies taking place. Is your PT trying to increase the amount of lateral movement of your patella and patellar tendon? If so, I don't understand why he or she would do that. Have you ever tried doing eccentric leg extensions?
I hardly do any rolling anymore. I didn't feel like I was getting much bang for the amount of time it takes. Some people are rolling fanatics.

Um ... neither? The VMO appears to be the, er, medial part of the leg - closer to the center line. My swelling is on the outside of the quad, the part of the vastus lateralis closest to the knee. I believe that this swelling inhibits my quad muscle from fully contracting, just for fun.

Yes, I need my patella to have lateral play. It's to counteract tightness and scarring from where the patellar tendon is regrown. In this surgery, they "harvest" the middle of the tendon and use it to recreate the ACL. Thus there is a gap in the tendon that apparently, in 80% of cases, closes up on its own. But of course there's scar tissue from that.

Patellar mobilization appears to be standard PT protocol for this sort of surgery. https://mikereinold.com/rehabilitation-following-acl-reconstruction-surgery/ - especially for the patellar tendon graft.

When my patella is held too tightly, I start hearing clicking as the patella grinds against whatever's behind it, and then if I don't work on it, eventually it gets acute. As in "last Mother's Day I had to download because my knee made a huge popping sound when I tried to step into my binding, it hurt like a bitch, and I thought I had torn my ACL all over again."

As for PTs ... I actually haven't gone to a PT in a few months. They seemed to be out of ideas, just trying to get me to squat and then fiddling around a little when it hurt, but really weren't giving me anything other than the stuff that already hadn't helped in the previous 6 months. The dry needling helped temporarily, but it didn't stick. So I went back to my personal trainer, who also has training in a lot of different modalities of healing. He has had more useful ideas in the last two months than any PT had in a long time. He also spends a full hour with me, texts with me between sessions, creates full-body workouts to address both the knee and my overall fitness and health goals ... and I've worked with him on and off for maybe 8 years. So he's expensive (which is why I put off switching to him for so long), but definitely worth it. I also like that he actually has a real gym that I can use in between sessions, vs the PT office that has weird PT specific devices that you can't find anywhere else.

Just my thoughts I like where @Josh Matta is headed.... look at the characteristics of the ski. A 98mm Renoun or even a 108 WhiteDot will be smoother than a Head Rally/Titan - esp if you heel push.

I don't know the characteristics of any of those. I do know the Pugski community chose the Viva for me in part because it was supposed to be fairly forgiving.

White Dot demos are available at Snow Hut in Lafayette.

I'm not buying another ski!!!

IMHO, I'd stay with the 80mm skis if I were you. De-tune the snot out of the tails if you can't stop the heal pushing, but honestly, I think the heal pushing is probably what is contributing to the hurt in your knee. What you got away with B4 your injury is now your nemesis. I know you're loath to hear any "instructional" advice, but your injury has presented you with, perhaps, an unwelcome opportunity to reinvent your skiing from the ground up. Throw your ego out the window and head to the green slopes and don't come off them until you can carve and gently flatten your skis to release them before initiating the other turn. Also, the ramp angle of those attack bindings are fairly neutral in my opinion ( I own several pair ), This is totally speculation, but as a woman, you may be carrying your body weight in a manor that forces you to exert extra pressure on your quads/pattela to stand tall and forward. Some experimentation on skiing a binding with a more ramp angle might pay off; you'd probably have to demo at a high end shop for that. I know you already admonished someone for offering instructional advice, but I hope you take this in the spirit in which it is intended, that you may return to the rock star skier you were headed to be B4 your injury.

Of COURSE the heel pushing is contributing. I thought I mentioned that in my very first post It's something I'm working on. Diligently.

It's not that I don't want to hear instructional advice. It's that I'm actually signed up for 30 lessons this season already with PSIA level 3 instructors and examiners. People who have skied with me before and after the surgery. So while I'm probably "only" going to get 20 or so lessons in fact, it's plenty. Instructors want to instruct - I get it. But it's just so much more noise, especially when I have access to an actual in-person instructor on the slope. People who, by virtue of having skied with me, have a much better idea of what I need than anyone on the internet (even those with the very best intentions).

So I've been taking these lessons and we're working on all sorts of good things - whole-footed skiing, using the inside leg for turn initiation, tele turns, and when all else fails, an instructor skiing behind me on a beginner run yelling, "Stop pushing your heels! Pivot from the center of the foot!"

He's had us strapped up - put a strap loosely around our legs just above our knees so that if we didn't use the inside leg on turns, it would fall. It was enlightening. If your students are advanced enough, this is a pretty fantastic drill.

So, I guess, just trust me that I'm in good hands instructionally - and even if I weren't, my ability to learn from internet ski instruction is demonstrably lacking. You're much better off not trying.

One of the reasons I have the Attack 13s is their neutral ramp angle. The main reason is because they're light as a feather to step into. I don't think ramp angle is the issue - this is an issue that has been beaten to death around here and on theskidiva - but even if it were, I'm not replacing the bindings on six pairs of skis to play with ramp angles. I do have a relatively upright ski boot and heel lifts that in combination made it pretty easy to ski without a lot of work. Prior to injury.

Ever ski a blizzard latigo? 78 underfoot, shape similar to a brahma, easy release, medium radius, hold well yet still play and cheap on closeout. Should be able to setup a set for under $450.

I have one funky knee and I can ski skinny skis all day long on harpack. My GS skis, rally's, Titans, Volkl codes, etc., no problem. My Brahms's or anything wider will let me know by the end of the day, so will my SL skis.

Not buying skis, thank you!

 

[karlo]

My muscles also progressively tighten

could applying a toe warmer there help? Just a thought.

 

[Monique]

Ahh, the Monique whisperer comes out with what everyone in the audience has been waiting for!

Only a new pair of skis can save me!

View attachment 35166

No. No, no, no.

Seriously, Monique, just 'cause you're not as old as many of us, it doesn't mean you're still young. You gotta do what we all do: Eat better, don't slouch in front of your unit tests, keep spinning, take lots of Vitamin I, run brush gates until you really understand exactly how much you suck, don't drink alcohol, ski your butt off even though it hurts, then go ahead and have a couple of beers and a burger. Understand that life is grand, and wait for grandchildren even though they're highly unlikely. Then you die.

Hah. Tony. Tony. I have a chronic debilitating condition. I actually can't take Vitamin I or Aleve to mask the pain the way so many people do - and I kinda think that's a good thing. I rarely drink. I take better care of myself than most. Those grandchildren seem more than unlikely given that I don't and won't have kids. Spinning hurts my knees (seriously! has done since long before this injury).

Avoiding slouching is hard =/

Also, that hurts! I just turned 40. Can't really come to grips with it. Some jerk - I think it was my husband - used the term "middle-aged." That ... can't be me, can it? No way.

 

[Monique]

could applying a toe warmer there help? Just a thought.

Now THAT is a very interesting idea.

 

[karlo]

Now THAT is a very interesting idea.

If you try and it helps, please let me know. My left gluts have been tightening up on account of an injury. That would be a lot of toe warmers.

or, does Vicks make a patch version of vapor rub?

 

[cantunamunch]

It's probably hard to be sure, but my upright stance hasn't been about strength historically. Since the injury, the upright stance has been influenced by knee pain, not strength. I think.

And yeah, once that leg starts bracing, every 2" bump is a bitch. Time to head in.

I've exhibited a superhuman (superMoniquean) amount of patience.

I'm reading 'historically' as "pre-injury" here.

Did you notice the other part of the clause? Did you notice the implicit suggestion of a "ski with softer ankles" cue?

I don't really think that requiring edge engagement is such a great tradeoff for me right now.

I agree from my big-picture viewpoint but I made the suggestion-perhaps it could have been worth it to you in the extremely short term.

 

[cantunamunch]

I

or, does Vicks make a patch version of vapor rub?

I feel that it is completely appropriate to post this link here

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/learn/dos-and-donts-of-embrocation

 

[coskigirl]

If you try and it helps, please let me know. My left gluts have been tightening up on account of an injury. That would be a lot of toe warmers.

or, does Vicks make a patch version of vapor rub?

I use IcyHot patches on my lower back when it acts up and have recently began using them for long haul flights preventatively. The Target brand generics work the best in my experience.

 

[CalG]

Just a note:

I've been on Elan Speed Wave for three weeks without issue.
With the new snow this week, I upped the width underfoot to 77mm (Elan 777)
My knees are barking at me like the have never done.
Perhaps it is the excitement and fever of fresh snow.
Perhaps it is the ski width.

Are "wide" skis a young person's game?

With the RTM84's going for "binding check" tomorrow, and the 100 mm underfoot soft snow ski as reference, I'll wait the disposition.

Mean while, I did imbibe in knee deep blower on a closed "unskiable" run today. The obligations of wearing the red coat with the white cross......
Yes, It was a trial I would not suggest for 99.9% of the typical guest. It was fun for me however. And "Gasp" on only 77 underfoot. Think of how much more pleasure could have been had if only I had 120+.. ;-) Satire..