When to pull back feet in bumps

[James]

Mogul vids would be much better shot from the side. At least in this discussion as the fore/aft issues are key.

 

[CalG]

If you have thirty days of short swing turns in a season, Asking about when to do what with your feet is a hopeless case.
You have "slow learner's syndrome", or you need to pay more attention. I feel the latter, because of your determination.

Most skiers would consider 30 days on snow a wonderful opportunity .....

 

[RichGuo]

Mogul vids would be much better shot from the side. At least in this discussion as the fore/aft issues are key.

Shot some vid with mobile phone, it's too low quality, next time will ask friend shot on side in close distance.

 

[RichGuo]

If you have thirty days of short swing turns in a season, Asking about when to do what with your feet is a hopeless case.
You have "slow learner's syndrome", or you need to pay more attention. I feel the latter, because of your determination.

Most skiers would consider 30 days on snow a wonderful opportunity .....

As a middle age man (baby boomer), I can only learn this far. this is my 4th season. each day we can skiing maximum 5 hours, otherwise it's too tired.

 

[CalG]

As a middle age man (baby boomer), I can only learn this far. this is my 4th season. each day we can skiing maximum 5 hours, otherwise it's too tired.

Ahh

Yes, I understand. 4th season allows much in future progress and prowess!.

I will reiterate. The correct time to pull the feet back is when the bump is being absorbed. Immediately followed with ankle flex that carries the ski tips down the next trough. If the feet are not pulled back, the ankles range of motion will not allow keeping the skis in contact with the snow surface.
Extension then follows.

Repeat as desired, Turns are thrown in to keep things interesting though I have seen "bumpers" ignore such distractions.

 

[RichGuo]

My vid for MA:

 

[jack97]

^^^
I like your approaches to the bumps and the timing of your flexing and extensions. The main problem is you have too much leg separation, they diverge at the end of the turn which shows most of your COM (weight) is not over the downhill leg. This causes several problems, lack of turn control when you approach the face of the bump and prevents you from quickly weight shifting during the turn transition. In order to control speed on a bump run, you need to be "ready early" which means quickly weight shifted and balanced over the down hill leg to control the turn as you descend downward. On steeper runs, you will need this type of turn control as well absorption range.

In addition, the lack of single leg balance is preventing you from getting forward to load the front of the ski. The vid shows the K2 244 or the old mamba skis, they have a flex pattern similar to the Dynastar Twister. Both are made to easily flex (reverse camber) by loading the front of the ski.

Mentioned previously, the tail lift drill develops skills to balance on your downhill leg. If you having a hard time with that drill, below is a good progression for this.

 

[RichGuo]

The main problem is you have too much leg separation, they diverge at the end of the turn which shows most of your COM (weight) is not over the downhill leg. This causes several problems, lack of turn control when you approach the face of the bump and prevents you from quickly weight shifting during the turn transition.

Thanks Jack, you point out exact my problem! I could not figure out what's proper range of leg seperation, if I turn too much, it will affect my timing of absorption, if i stay in trough, it will go too fast.

And Yes, I need more practice javelin turns on flat.

 

[jack97]

[QUOTE="RichGuo, post: 197450, member: 2641"

And Yes, I need more practice javelin turns on flat.[/QUOTE]

Javelin turns is an advance drill where one needs good single leg balance to begin with. So this becomes a chicken and egg problem, which comes first? I would start with the tail lifts which develops single leg balance .....and every now and then lift the tip. Which is the prelude to skiing on a single leg. The other benefit of the tail lift is it moves the COM forward which is very important in skiing a zipperline or a direct line in the bumps.

Vid below shows a freestyle team doing tail lifts and a variant of using the inside leg. The coaches thinks they are important.

 

[jack97]

......it moves the COM forward which is very important in skiing a zipperline or a direct line in the bumps.

Just to belabor the point of moving the COM forward and loading the front of the skis. When done correctly it is another way to control speed. The Fearing vid talks about this and shows this at 9:25. In general, developing the skills to move to the backseat, to cuff neutral and to forward allows more range and opens up more techniques you can use. Moving forward is the hardest part of the three, that's why it becomes an important skill to developed.

As Fearing shows, keeping the same turn radius he can slow down to a stop by gradually loading the tips. I typically change the tempo of my speed and pragmatically when I am behind skiers looking to ether pass them or let them pass me.

 

[RichGuo]

In general, developing the skills to move to the backseat, to cuff neutral and to forward allows more range and opens up more techniques you can use.

Interesting!!, so you are saying we should have skills to move to backseat then center, then forward in a turn? sounds like James mentioned dynamic balance?
I remember one Austrian instructor have demo this kind drill in vid, I thought that was for cue to feel backseat, never think it's useful skills

 

[David Chaus]

I have K2 163/66, my boot flex mark as 80.

I understand I am not good groomer, I lack lots skill sets for skiing zipperline, but I'd like let mogul teach me to be good skier, when I ski blue run(seeded mogul), I just let bumps turn me, that feeling is owesome.

Moguls will not teach you to be a good skier. Moguls will teach you exactly what skills you still need to work on the groomers in order to be a better skier.

Interesting!!, so you are saying we should have skills to move to backseat then center, then forward in a turn? sounds like James mentioned dynamic balance?
I remember one Austrian instructor have demo this kind drill in vid, I thought that was for cue to feel backseat, never think it's useful skills

Rather than move to backseat, I prefer to think of it as move back to center. Rather than fore and aft, think of it as “fore” and “center”, or “fore” and “less fore.”

 

[jack97]

Interesting!!, so you are saying we should have skills to move to backseat then center, then forward in a turn? sounds like James mentioned dynamic balance?

First, balance is dynamic it is never static. As far as moving the COM wrt to the cuff, it does not mean to use all three ranges in a single turn.It's an advance skill used in the bumps and is dependent on the situation you find yourself such as, if you let the bumps push you into the back seat, you will need to "lever" yourself back to neutral. Other advance moves are to scoot over a trough with exposed pebble and dirt, you might want to go more toward the back seat and let the ski jet a little. Or keep the cuff neutral to make a quick turn on the flatter section of the bump, this is meant not to slow down but to maintain the line you were trying to ski. When you see really good skiers in a non seeded field or late 80 to mid 90 mogul comp, they effectively use this type of range.

The important part is to learn to keep forward first so that you can control your speed in the bumps. Working on the cuff range comes later but I didn't want to give an impression to put constant pressure on the tongues.

 

[Mike King]

IMHO, you do not have enough vertical range of motion. You need to learn to start a turn from your most compressed position. Your video shows very little flexion and extension. Go to the groomers and practice short swing turns getting to a very compressed position when you change edges and to a very extended position in the fall line. until you have the ability to flex and extend, you aren't going to be able to keep the skis on the snow and access the speed control you need to ski the line you picked in the bumps.

Mike

 

[RichGuo]

IMHO, you do not have enough vertical range of motion. You need to learn to start a turn from your most compressed position. Your video shows very little flexion and extension. Go to the groomers and practice short swing turns getting to a very compressed position when you change edges and to a very extended position in the fall line. until you have the ability to flex and extend, you aren't going to be able to keep the skis on the snow and access the speed control you need to ski the line you picked in the bumps.

Mike

Agreed, have not done enough flexion and extension drill on flat. not getting enough forward like Jack97 said is another problem. got a lot of todo list on flat for this season.

 

[cosmoliu]

The other established drill for absorption is to ski across the fall line on a bump run absorbing the bumps as they come along. The closer you get to the fall line, the faster you have to pump those knees.

 

[Mike King]

Agreed, have not done enough flexion and extension drill on flat. not getting enough forward like Jack97 said is another problem. got a lot of todo list on flat for this season.

It is easy to get too far forward. Getting too far forward causes the tails to wash out. Personally, I would focus on developing the ability to use your full vertical range of motion while standing in the middle of the ski first. Once you have access to that range of motion on the groomers, take it to the bumps. You will soon work out the fore-aft manipulation of the ski then.

Mike

 

[PTskier]

Rich, one big thing to change in your bump skiing is to get away from the extension turns where you extend your body upward to lighten your skis and turn. This does not permit you to absorb the impact of the bump. Here's a couple of great videos about absorbing the bumps and turning during the absorption movement. Absorption (retraction) turns can be used all the time for every turn. There is no good reason to continue to use extension turns. Another thing I noticed is the sound your skis make. The scrape to reduce speed is very short. With absorption turns and pulling the feet up & back you will have the ability to keep your ski edges in contact with the bump for a longer time for better speed & direction control.

Here are a couple of drills for you. Find a bump run where the bumps are more widely spaced. Ski straight across the run. Imagine that your helmet is attached to a rope pulled tight, so your head stays steady all the way across. Absorb the uneveness of the run totally by pulling your legs up as you go up a bump and pushing them down as you descend the bump. Pick a run and an angle so you succeed at this. Repeat, repeat. Add pulling your heels up behind your hips as shown in the video so your ski tips are in contact with the snow right away as you descend the bump.
Second drill: On a smooth run, practice curving side slips. Slowly aim down the run, then curve to a side slip to almost stop. The goal is total slow speed control in a curve. Go to a steeper pitched slope and practice, practice, practice. Get the balance and edge control automatic. This is what you'll use for speed control on the sides of bumps.

 

[jack97]

It is easy to get too far forward. Getting too far forward causes the tails to wash out. Personally, I would focus on developing the ability to use your full vertical range of motion while standing in the middle of the ski first. Once you have access to that range of motion on the groomers, take it to the bumps. You will soon work out the fore-aft manipulation of the ski then.

Mike

Once I'm in a bump run having the tails wash out is the least of my problems. I recall an older Austrian train instructor at the old site who advocated getting the hip forward to help slow down in the turn in steep run....I guess this is something that is no longer in vogue that is loading the front of the ski, The other benefit of bringing the hip forward is to allow more absorption range without the upper body folding forward.

 

[Mike King]

Being too far forward can also limit your range of vertical motion and ability to flex. Part of why I am advocating focusing on range of motion first. Fore/aft can become a focus later.

Mike