What does "finishing your turns" mean?

[JESinstr]

Also, Can someone tell me how to activate the personal link function? In my post above I used the "@" sign for Bud but it did not invoke a Bold Link. Thanks

 

[T-Square]

@JESinstr, just start typing the name after the @ sign. When the right name shows up select it and keep typing. It will only bold after you submit the post.

 

[QueueCT]

Excellent turn finish requires what we in the East call good or hero snow (what you Westerners call snow).

Unless your race tech has just tuned your skis, completing turns on what we often have here is an exercise in skidding — it's a sport de glisse — until you hit the next pile of manmade.

Having just returned from Stratton on marginal snow Saturday ... meaning groomed ice underneath spindrift ... I disagree with this. Easy to hold the edge, regardless of edge angle, provided I'm in a balanced position. The issue is space and type of ski. If I'm on a fairly wide open trail then I can rip big, carved turns that control speed, give me plenty of Gs and propel me into my next turn. On ice and without exceeding 35mph or so. If I'm on narrower trails then I have to change my turn strategy. Otherwise I'm eating trees or getting up close and personal with my neighbor. That requires more energy transfer from the leg to the skis to bend them faster and rebound into the next turn. My "finish" is a very fast roll to the other edge and a positive assist to move the ski into the next turn (aka a stivot).

All of the above is on a stiff GS ski, though. Put me on softer slaloms and the equation changes a bit. Nothing better than the right ski for the right situation.

 

[Read Blinn]

All of the above is on a stiff GS ski, though.

My point made for me.

 

[razie]

If you don't finish your turns, you are just wiggling down the hill.

Same as "complete your turns" - I also know this phrase to mean taking the skis out of the fall line, across the hill, for a complete C turn, as opposed to just wiggling in the fall line, picking up speed until you have to slam on the brakes.

Narrow lanes mean more brushing and skidding than carving, likely, for most.

I would qualify the carve/skid ice/snow continuum as also skill-dependent. WC courses have an average offset of ~3m from apex to apex, so a cat track width and they often carve that even on a black...

Of course well tuned SL skis would be a must for that, but there is nothing wrong with doing short turns instead (as opposed to the carved slalom turns). The same principle applies: complete your turns.

Speed control is inversely correlated to how much the skis spend pointing down !

There is I think a fairly common meme that if it's not a carved turned, then it's pivoted. I beg to differ. Using the ski design in short turns is very much possible and for sure a skill.

 

[john petersen]

right on @razie ..... Ill take it one further and call it a skill set, or group of skills that is blended to achieve a desired result. There is a slight misconception among some that all turns need to be carved rails with no guided skidding....if you are in a narrow corridor that is beyond the sidecut limits of your skis, you have to shape the turn beyond the skis sidecut....doing this by doing more with edging alone, or skidding alone is not always the answer.

I like @Philpug description "I remind people to enjoy the turn they are in...don't be in such a rush to get the next turn. Personally for me, the second half of the turn is much more enjoyable because thats where the energy for the next turn is created." This hints at having managed the forces of the turn early and continuously which gives the feeling of having more time between turns...

When doing short radius turns down the side of the trail, for me, it is for several reasons...better snow, less crowded, a fun challenge, whatever, but I try to keep it real by reading the crowds, timing of other skiers turns, the snow conditions, ect so I can continue on my merry way past without causing disturbance. This helps dictate the shape and rate of my turns as Im having as much fun as possible. so for me its a fun challenge.

turn finish is a tough concept because it can be interpreted as a static position....but in reality, its more how philpug describes it. Others here have talked about turnshape, and I think that has merit. finishing the turn for me is turning them enough through and after the fall line to help my COM continue to move ahead of my feet.

you could say its the point where you let the COM win the race with your feet as they go down the hill.

 

[Philpug]

I like @Philpug description "I remind people to enjoy the turn they are in...don't be in such a rush to get the next turn. Personally for me, the second half of the turn is much more enjoyable because thats where the energy for the next turn is created." This hints at having managed the forces of the turn early and continuously which gives the feeling of having more time between turns...

...time to make dinner plan....think "did I leave a light on for the dog"...think about what to wear tomorrow...check e-mails...call your mother,,,tons of things to with all that free time you will have between the turns.

 

[kayco53]

When we are getting tuned up by a instructor it meant to me, that all the turns flow from one into another without any skidding and they have a nice S shape

 

[Kurt]

Not finishing a turn can be caused by not sufficiently building the turn during the transition before the fall line. The result can be poor body position and a whippy turn to scrub speed. I like @Philpug description; the finish of the turn can be a great place to enjoy for awhile; if it's too rushed and transition is made too early it can through you into the back seat.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Finishing or completing a turn means heading across the hill between turns. Many people have never explored what a fully finished turn feels like (wheee!), what such turns can do for you when you link them down the hill (high quality speed control), nor what it takes to make it happen in linked turns (that illusive crossing of the body over the skis).

I once watched an incredible junior racer come down the hill on slalom skis below me (I was on the chair). He had a personal coach wearing a USST jacket following him. This kid made the most beautiful, round, fully-C-shaped turns that I've ever seen. I see junior racers all the time at my mountain, but they don't complete their turns because they are focusing on going fast. This kid's focus must have been on getting the highest edge angles he could while making fully completed turns. He booted out once but did not fall; I could see the small divot in his movement just at it happened. What a skier.

For recreational skiers, it's not so much finishing the turn that's the problem. It's starting the next one afterwards. Turn initiation when heading across the hill can feel more challenging on even slightly challenging pitches. Even at slow speeds it can be daunting.

There are many ways of describing how to initiate a turn from an across-the-hill path:
-- the skier must allow the paths of the feet and the upper body to "cross" each other
-- the skier must get "upside down" at the top of the new turn
-- the skier's CoM must cross the BoS
-- the skier must move downhill of the skis.
I like the last description for simplicity.

These descriptions reveal why so many skiers don't finish their turns; they can't start the new turn if they fully finish the old turn. They have not yet worked on moving downhill of their skis to start the new turn. It can be scary, and self-preservation gets in the way of giving it a try. Learning to do this is a big milestone in the progression to higher skiing skills.

I find that focusing on where the feet go between the turns (instead of where the upper body goes) makes this initiation easier. I don't hear instructors talking about teaching this foot-focus very often. The thing to do is bring your feet back up under you AND turn the skis to point almost uphill as you do this. If you keep the skis turning until they almost point uphill, you'll be traveling across the hill at turn's end and get your C-shaped, completed turn. If you bring them back up under you as you do this, instead of having them way downhill of you, then your new turn will start automatically. It's quite the eye-opener when this first happens.

Why does this work? Because as those feet come back up under you, they will move just enough uphill of your shoulders to put you in that desired situation where "you" will be on the other side of your skis, where your CoM will be downhill of your BoS. The skis will then tip to new edges on their own, and you'll be in the new turn before you know it without having done anything to start it. Hold onto your socks!

This is an exhilarating feeling at speed.

 

[PTskier]

Not finishing a turn can be caused by not sufficiently building the turn during the transition before the fall line.

In order to correctly finish a turn, it must be correctly started. So, to finish a turn, start it right, a nice smooth C where the turn radius is established in the upper 1/3rd of the turn well before the skis reach the fall line. When a turn is "finished" isn't necessarily aimed across the hill. It is where ever you want that suits your desire, done smoothly and setting up the start of the next turn.


LiquidFeet's posting above is very important. All points nailed. A great drill for what LiquidFeet describes is on the bunny hill. Stand across the fall line on your edges--on the downhill edges. Flop over to the uphill edges, balancing your body as needed. Flop back to the downhill edges, uphill, downhill. You're still standing still. On those downhill edges, push off. Ride the edges until you're headed straight down the fall line (bunny hill, remember), then flop to the uphill edges and ride along until you're across the fall line. Flop over to the downhill edges and ride them to the fall line, flop over, repeat, repeat. Stop, change direction, do it some more the other way across the hill. You will begin to get the feeling of balancing on the "wrong" edges which is exactly what is needed for the turn start after the good finish. It's time to break out of the steering kludge.

 

[Josh Matta]

Honestly it means nothing....

a turn is finished when you start the next turn.

People will ski with out enough turn shape but they still start the next turn so there for they finished a turn.

A better question is the path down the hill the speed you want to go?

 

[Monique]

As @DoryBreaux posted early on, I was always under the impression that "finishing your turns" meant continuing the arc up the hill, thus slowing yourself down using gravity. It never made much sense to me, in that regard - outside of a drill, I've never noticed a really great skier, looked at their tracks, and seen them go back up the hill. Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Josh Matta]

As @DoryBreaux posted early on, I was always under the impression that "finishing your turns" meant continuing the arc up the hill, thus slowing yourself down using gravity. It never made much sense to me, in that regard - outside of a drill, I've never noticed a really great skier, looked at their tracks, and seen them go back up the hill. Maybe I'm missing something.

your not.....

the reality is that yes you can get speed control by literally going up the hill, but in practice its impractical, and going almost up the hill is normally good enough. The thing is that angle changes for a skiers skill level, equipment, slope gradient, slope condition, and how much given room there is. An idea like "finishing turns" has no exact meaning. Not that the similar but superior idea of "Slow line fast" has an exact meaning either. But even Bob Barnes admits that slow line fast isnt the end all to be all, but a guide line to be followed as much as the variables allow.

I know people look for concrete answer and in our skiing skills there can be fairly concrete answers but in out tactics its not cut and dry.

 

[T-Square]

As @DoryBreaux posted early on, I was always under the impression that "finishing your turns" meant continuing the arc up the hill, thus slowing yourself down using gravity. It never made much sense to me, in that regard - outside of a drill, I've never noticed a really great skier, looked at their tracks, and seen them go back up the hill. Maybe I'm missing something.

Most people are under the impression that great skiing is always "down" the hill. Well that is faster skiing and, yes, it is fun. But, remember your ticket allows you to use the whole hill as your playground. Side to side sking can be a blast too.

I play with this from time to time on wide trails. While carving I’ll continue the turn until I’m actually skiing up the hill a bit, not directly uphill, but definitely an uphill line. Then, before I get too slow to maintain a parallel turn, I drop into the next turn and continue the process. I call these button hook turns because they sort of resemble old fashioned button hooks. This is a form of skiing the slow line fast. Great exercise for learning how to control and use line. Also it’s a lot of fun to play with. If you like roller coasters, this can be you way to finding them in your skiing.

 

[JESinstr]

Most people are under the impression that great skiing is always "down" the hill. Well that is faster skiing and, yes, it is fun. But, remember you ticket allows you to use the whole hill as your playground. Side to side sking can be a blast too.

I play with this from time to time on wide trails. While carving I’ll continue the turn until I’m actually skiing up the hill a bit, not directly uphill, but definitely an uphill line. Then, before I get too slow to maintain a parallel turn, I drop into the next turn and continue the process. I call these button hook turns because they sort of resemble old fashioned button hooks. This is a form of skiing the slow line fast. Great exercise for learning how to control and use line. Also it’s a lot of fun to play with. If you like roller coasters, this can be you way to finding them in your skiing.

Merry Christmas T-Square!
So what I am gleaning from what you and others have written is that finishing your turns is really about having the ABILITY to finish our turns. It is this ABILITY that gets developed through drills and exercises like the one about which you wrote.

Those who "Brace" against the skis have little chance of continuing the circular path they started past perpendicular to the fall line because it is the fall line they are bracing against. If you subscribe to the "Go there" / "intent" philosophy of skiing, having the ABILITY to turn up hill is critical even though you rarely do it.

 

[Monique]

Merry Christmas T-Square!
So what I am gleaning from what you and others have written is that finishing your turns is really about having the ABILITY to finish our turns. It is this ABILITY that gets developed through drills and exercises like the one about which you wrote.

Those who "Brace" against the skis have little chance of continuing the circular path they started past perpendicular to the fall line because it is the fall line they are bracing against. If you subscribe to the "Go there" / "intent" philosophy of skiing, having the ABILITY to turn up hill is critical even though you rarely do it.

I like this. Makes sense to me.

 

[slowrider]

Balancing over the skis while riding through the terrain makes for a dynamic skier.

 

[T-Square]

Merry Christmas T-Square!
So what I am gleaning from what you and others have written is that finishing your turns is really about having the ABILITY to finish our turns. It is this ABILITY that gets developed through drills and exercises like the one about which you wrote.

Those who "Brace" against the skis have little chance of continuing the circular path they started past perpendicular to the fall line because it is the fall line they are bracing against. If you subscribe to the "Go there" / "intent" philosophy of skiing, having the ABILITY to turn up hill is critical even though you rarely do it.

Merry Christmas.

I subscribe to the thought that there is no true "finish" to a turn, only a flow between the directions you are going. You are correct, it is ability to go where you want that is key. It is easy to brace against where you don’t want to go. It takes practice and skill to efficiently use the forces developed while skiing to go in our intended direction.

 

[mdf]

Also, Can someone tell me how to activate the personal link function? In my post above I used the "@" sign for Bud but it did not invoke a Bold Link. Thanks

You type a few letters and a list shows up. Lately it has taken a couple tries to pick out the name I want -- for some reason the target area seems small and I have to try a couple times to get it. The page has to shake hands with the server to get the list, so on a slow connection wait a minute and it may pop up.

I'm on mobile right now, so don't remember the deal on desktop.