The New Sole of Skiing: Part 2

[Philpug]

Whats missing in the article is the AT boot standard. The question is do we need an intermediate sole inbetween the AT sole and alpine standard?

Personally I have switched to muli norm compatible bindings on my skis so I dont have to change soles on by my boots all the time when changing to/from tech bindings.

For someone who has AT soles, a MNC binding is the answer. The question "do we need an intermediate sole inbetween the AT sole and alpine standard?" ths the basis of both of these articles. Some feel yes, some feel it is an solution to a problem that wasn't there could have been addressed 75%+/- with a quality vibram type DIN sole.

Quick question: I have the first generation Tyrolia Adrenaline 16's that I'd like to put on a new ski (probably a Head Kore 105). I am also shopping new boots, my question is, can this binding be adjusted to fit WTR and Gripwalk binding? I am assuming it can as it is adjustable between AT standards and alpine. But I just want to make sure there isn't some other factor other than height to consider with those soles. Thanks, and sorry if this is a dumb question.

If a binding ia AT (ISO-9523) compatible it will accommodate WTR and GripWalk. @Superbman, the Adrenaline is AT compatible

 

[Dwight]

For traction,I guess these would work too.

 

[Philpug]

For traction,I guess these would work too.

For all of the walking devices out there, these are my favorites. Personally, I hate dealing with them so I go with replacable soles on my boots, even my solid lug boots.

 

[KevinF]

To be a bit cynical... I understand that walking in ski boots can be a bit awkward. I understand that Western resorts can entail some substantial walks to get from the car to the slopes and back again (*cough* Vail *cough*).

I'm just wondering how much of the "walking is uncomfortable" discussion is rooted in the fact that most people have ski boots that don't fit worth a damn to begin with? This forum regularly dispenses the advice that lots of problems will be solved by going to a good boot fitter and doing what (s)he tells you. Good advice, although "good" boot fitters are few and far between.

I just feel like we're going to have new soles (WTR, grip, whatever) and the majority of the skiing public will still hate to walk in ski boots because, well, their ski boots hurt.

Once your feet start hurting, it doesn't much matter what shoe you have on -- you want it off. My well broken in hiking boots feel super comfy until I get a blister going and then it's pretty much "get this friggin' thing off my foot NOW".

 

[Philpug]

To be a bit cynical... I understand that walking in ski boots can be a bit awkward. I understand that Western resorts can entail some substantial walks to get from the car to the slopes and back again (*cough* Vail *cough*).

I'm just wondering how much of the "walking is uncomfortable" discussion is rooted in the fact that most people have ski boots that don't fit worth a damn to begin with? This forum regularly dispenses the advice that lots of problems will be solved by going to a good boot fitter and doing what (s)he tells you. Good advice, although "good" boot fitters are few and far between.

I just feel like we're going to have new soles (WTR, grip, whatever) and the majority of the skiing public will still hate to walk in ski boots because, well, their ski boots hurt.

Once your feet start hurting, it doesn't much matter what shoe you have on -- you want it off. My well broken in hiking boots feel super comfy until I get a blister going and then it's pretty much "get this friggin' thing off my foot NOW".

Not cynical, but completely valid points.

 

[BS Slarver]

Switching to Cochise freeride boots for multiple reasons. Last years treks had me walking for hours in boots before and after the slopes. Europe and Canada I noticed a ton of freeride boots around town, heck even in the grocery store.
Finding as my bones and joints age the range of motion a boot like that offers is all good. In discussions with my boot fitter I can always swap out the soles for the vibram alternative as needed as I phase in bindings over the next few years depending on how the bindings evolve.

 

[Philpug]

I know @Greg Whitehouse and his team at California Ski Company put a lot of their eggs into this basket with many of their boots being WTR/GripWalk and AT. Let's see if we can get him to chime in.

 

[SBrown]

To be a bit cynical... I understand that walking in ski boots can be a bit awkward. I understand that Western resorts can entail some substantial walks to get from the car to the slopes and back again (*cough* Vail *cough*).

I'm just wondering how much of the "walking is uncomfortable" discussion is rooted in the fact that most people have ski boots that don't fit worth a damn to begin with? This forum regularly dispenses the advice that lots of problems will be solved by going to a good boot fitter and doing what (s)he tells you. Good advice, although "good" boot fitters are few and far between.

I just feel like we're going to have new soles (WTR, grip, whatever) and the majority of the skiing public will still hate to walk in ski boots because, well, their ski boots hurt.

Once your feet start hurting, it doesn't much matter what shoe you have on -- you want it off. My well broken in hiking boots feel super comfy until I get a blister going and then it's pretty much "get this friggin' thing off my foot NOW".

It's my knees, not my feet, that hurt. Walk mode prolongs my ski day.

 

[KevinF]

It's my knees, not my feet, that hurt. Walk mode prolongs my ski day.

How does walk mode help your knees? Are you talking about the walk-mode switch on the back of touring boots that allows the cuff to move much more freely?

 

[SBrown]

How does walk mode help your knees? Are you talking about the walk-mode switch on the back of touring boots that allows the cuff to move much more freely?

Yes. Which of course isn't the sole, but the slightly rockered and grippy soles do help a more natural motion. as well.

 

[wyowindrunner]

How will this work with demo / rental skis?

 

[fatbob]

It won't necessarily. I assume there is a big push to sell the bindings into rental shops but I guess most will have to plump for the 3 way compatible bindings.

 

[Philpug]

How will this work with demo / rental skis?

It won't necessarily. I assume there is a big push to sell the bindings into rental shops but I guess most will have to plump for the 3 way compatible bindings.

Actually Marker/Dalbello is looking to put a big push into rental systems.

 

[SBrown]

How will this work with demo / rental skis?

We just posted some binding facts (a lot of binding facts), and you can see how different brands are lining up.

Look, Marker, Atomic/Salomon, Tyrolia

 

[Philpug]

How will this work with demo / rental skis?

 

[Alexzn]

I remember seeing DIN soles with vibram type thread parys that were still compatible with regular bindings. That would be my choice for ultimate compatibility, especially since I have a waiver. Less slip is good, no question about it. Both at the base and when you are hiking up from the chair. I still think excessive walking in your ski boots is bad as you wear out the soles and they become sloppy. But other than that some rubber in the soles would help. I think very few of us race at a level when they can get a huge performance boost from a thicker solid plastic in the sole.

 

[CrystalRose]

Would you suggest people buy bindings that accept WTR or Gripwalk if they are just starting out such as myself and @Started at 53? We have a clean slate without a quiver of bindings to replace yet.

Also it seems like WTR and Gripwalk are after market soles at this moment correct? Are manufactures selling boots with this as an option out the gate?

 

[Philpug]

Also it seems like WTR and Gripwalk are after market soles at this moment correct? Are manufactures selling boots with this as an option out the gate?

Some boots are coming with GripWalk as the sole right out of the box. I do not know of a boot that has GripWalk that will not accept a DIN sole. At this point, almost everything that comes with GripWalk, has a DIN counterpart sole that it can be swapped with.

 

[Philpug]

I remember seeing DIN soles with vibram type thread parys that were still compatible with regular bindings. That would be my choice for ultimate compatibility, especially since I have a waiver. Less slip is good, no question about it. Both at the base and when you are hiking up from the chair. I still think excessive walking in your ski boots is bad as you wear out the soles and they become sloppy. But other than that some rubber in the soles would help. I think very few of us race at a level when they can get a huge performance boost from a thicker solid plastic in the sole.

Whenever I get into a solid sole boot, I will add some sort of walking sole to them, just because it does make it a ton easier to get around in slippery conditions.

Here are my Langes with Head Vibram soles.

 

[markojp]

I remember seeing DIN soles with vibram type thread parys that were still compatible with regular bindings. That would be my choice for ultimate compatibility, especially since I have a waiver. Less slip is good, no question about it. Both at the base and when you are hiking up from the chair. I still think excessive walking in your ski boots is bad as you wear out the soles and they become sloppy. But other than that some rubber in the soles would help. I think very few of us race at a level when they can get a huge performance boost from a thicker solid plastic in the sole.

Phill beat me to it on the Head Vibram lifter. Unfortunately they're a bit expensive ($85'ish), and that's before labor charges.