Narrow or Wide Snow Tires

[Philpug]

Paging @coskigirl

 

[coskigirl]

Paging @coskigirl

You rang?

I think you’re asking if I know anything about the tire test because of my company’s winter test track in Finland? Sadly, I don’t get any of that info.

 

[Ken_R]

I put 235/55 18's on our subbie instead of the stock 225/55 18's. So far they have been awesome. The extra bit of sidewall and width works very well and IMHO looks better. Have only encountered one storm (Vail Pass to Dillon) so looking forward to getting them more on snow.

 

[wutangclan]

Did anyone actually READ the article rather than just skim the results or jump straight to commenting? The first sentence says it all: Kennen Sie dieses Aha-Gefühl, wenn viele kleine Neuerungen unmerklich das große Ganze verändern und plötzlich etwas völlig anderes Gültigkeit hat?

Translated: Do you know this Aha-feeling when many small innovations imperceptibly change the big thing and suddenly something completely different is valid?

All 'yall's anecdotal evidence from "'79-'80" ain't relevant no more! Sorry to remind you that time flies, you're getting older and that was 40 years ago, when basic tire compounds were molded into crude tread patterns with rudimentary construction methods.

Point is that with today's tacky-yet-durable, polyvalent synthetic compounds, complex belting and reinforcing, and tread/microsipe patterns drawing inspiration from gecko feet, the height/width profile of a tire and the size/shape of contact patches matter much less for low/medium speed straight-line grip. Yet the cornering advantages of wide, low-profile tires remain. So the compromise has swung in the other direction!

 

[François Pugh]

I used to be firmly in the narrower is better camp for snow and ice. Then I tried the Michelen X-ice on my Chevy Caprice. The new tire, which was wider than my previous snow tires, not only preformed better, they allowed me to get through deeper snow without plowing as much of it with the bumper, although it took skill to know when you could climb up and over and not dig a hole with the drive wheel and know when you had to just give 'er.

I think it really does depend on the rubber compound. If it ain't sticky water sucking rubber you need more pressure and narrow wins; if is the new compound, AND IT'S NOT LESS THAN -10 F you need the wider tires work better.

 

[Crank]

Personal experience tells me narrower is better.

 

[Tom K.]

Naw.. you want narrow carvers on ice and super fat for deep powder float. Do winter tires also have different camber options?

Camber options? What nonsense.

Full reverse camber snow tires are the only way to go!

 

[wyowindrunner]

All 'yall's anecdotal evidence from "'79-'80" ain't relevant no more! Sorry to remind you that time flies, you're getting older and that was 40 years ago, when basic tire compounds were molded into crude tread patterns with rudimentary construction methods.

Point is that with today's tacky-yet-durable, polyvalent synthetic compounds, complex belting and reinforcing, and tread/microsipe patterns drawing inspiration from gecko feet, the height/width profile of a tire and the size/shape of contact patches matter much less for low/medium speed straight-line grip. Yet the cornering advantages of wide, low-profile tires remain. So the compromise has swung in the other direction

Yes - you are on the mark with tire evolution. Gecko feet? Don't know squat about lizard locomotion, but gonna bet they do not move with all four feet on the ground- tree - wall-whatever. (Don't buy insurance from lizards either!) New designs and rubber compounds aside, tirereview.com still states that generally a narrower tire will outperform a wider tire. With emphasis on generally. Tire rack suggests dropping tire sizing down to the base model tire for snow use.

 

[wutangclan]

Gecko feet? Don't know squat about lizard locomotion, but gonna bet they do not move with all four feet on the ground- tree - wall-whatever.

I should've elaborated: microsiping works on a similar, if cruder, principle as the micro ridges on the bottom of gecko feet. Surface area and surface flexibility are increased, thus effective grip is increased, though at a slight cost of rigidity and durability (hopefully offset by modern construction / materials).

 

[tball]

My guess is it depends on the conditions you are looking to optimize for traction.

In deep snow the old conventional wisdom of narrower tires probably still holds true. But, I'm more worried about stopping and cornering on packed snow and ice at highway speeds. In those conditions, I can see how wider tires with modern winter treads will perform better.

In practice, I just run the same size snow tires as my all-seasons.

 

[Slim]

New designs and rubber compounds aside, tirereview.com still states that generally a narrower tire will outperform a wider tire. With emphasis on generally. Tire rack suggests dropping tire sizing down to the base model tire for snow use.

Do either of those sites (or anyone speaking from experience) test different widths? Just because they write it on their website doesn't make it true. They may well just be going on theory.

Does anyone have any other tests comparing wide and narrow winter tires? Either with the results favoring wide, narrow or no difference?

It seems like an important part of tire choice, yet there is very little testing on this subject.

 

[Bill Talbot]

just to further complicate things, I also want a taller tire for winter work... for a handful of reasons!

 

[wutangclan]

Does anyone have any other tests comparing wide and narrow winter tires? Either with the results favoring wide, narrow or no difference?

Actually I have direct experience with this. I live in Vancouver, but have worked at Cypress, Grouse and Whistler for the last 15 years. In winter, depending on elevation, we're usually driving on mixed conditions in the city, and in the mountains the roads are quite variable between hardpack snow, black ice or slush ... with deep fresh snow once every week or two if it's a good winter.

OEM tires on my car are 225/45-17. I bought a set of Michelin X-Ice3 but, based on the conventional wisdom that "narrow & tall is better for snow", ordered 205/55-16 tires with matching rims. They were great on snow but I hated them for bare roads whether wet or dry -- they squealed like pigs any time I took a turn slightly faster than my grandma would. So I dumped the tires and rims as quickly as I could and bought another new set of X-Ice3 at the original fitment of 225/45-17. Aaah...much better...almost equal performance on bare roads as my summer tires, and no discernible difference on ice/snow (even deep freshies) from the narrower winter tires.

Given that, I'm convinced that old school thinking is exactly that and no more. Times be changin, yo.

 

[pete]

I put 235 ..... only encountered one storm (Vail Pass to Dillon) so looking forward to getting them more on snow.

Sorta depends on if it's good or bad experience?

 

[ScotsSkier]

I put 235/55 18's on our subbie instead of the stock 225/55 18's. So far they have been awesome. The extra bit of sidewall and width works very well and IMHO looks better. Have only encountered one storm (Vail Pass to Dillon) so looking forward to getting them more on snow.

Yes, I used to run slightly bigger on my Q7s (265/60 rather than 255/55) and it worked well. On my F150 I have run snows in both 265/65-18s and 275/55-20s - both recommended sizes - and the 275/55 are significantly better and give up only a little in comparison to the normal 275/55-20 ATs

 

[Ken_R]

Sorta depends on if it's good or bad experience?

Really good experience

 

[wyowindrunner]

Do either of those sites (or anyone speaking from experience) test different widths? Just because they write it on their website doesn't make it true. They may well just be going on theory.

Does anyone have any other tests comparing wide and narrow winter tires? Either with the results favoring wide, narrow or no difference?

It seems like an important part of tire choice, yet there is very little testing on this subject.

Good question- revisited the Tire Rack web site and did a little reading-did not know that some snow tires require being driven a few hundred miles to develop maximum traction due to the mold releasing agent that is used during the curing process. Or that some vehicle manufacturer's advise increasing snow tire pressure by 3-5 psi- will be checking my various owners manuals (wonder why that is not posted on the door pillar?). They have their own test track and do ice testing on a hockey rink. A side by side comparison of the following tires was done using a 2016 Porsche Cayenne S. The tires tested were the Bridgestone Blizzak DMV2, The Michelin Latitude x-ice XIZ and the Yokohama Ice Guard iG51v. The test tire size was 255/55R18. Had to check the Cayenne std equip lists- this is the base model tire size. The std. Cayenne S size is 265/50R19, and the top end Cayenne GTS size is 275/45R18. I think these guys are on their game- the test results are well documented with eye candy-bar graphs and spider charts. Sections on the site that have snow tire recommendations emphasize the savings to the consumer by sizing down on a dedicated snow tire/wheel set up due to the smaller sizing. While I could not find any reference to the specific width differences in testing, I have a hunch they could supply some empirical data on the subject. The website is worth checking out. Oh- the Blizzak came out on top.

 

[Slim]

Good question- revisited the Tire Rack web site and did a little reading-did not know that some snow tires require being driven a few hundred miles to develop maximum traction due to the mold releasing agent that is used during the curing process. Or that some vehicle manufacturer's advise increasing snow tire pressure by 3-5 psi- will be checking my various owners manuals (wonder why that is not posted on the door pillar?). They have their own test track and do ice testing on a hockey rink. A side by side comparison of the following tires was done using a 2016 Porsche Cayenne S. The tires tested were the Bridgestone Blizzak DMV2, The Michelin Latitude x-ice XIZ and the Yokohama Ice Guard iG51v. The test tire size was 255/55R18. Had to check the Cayenne std equip lists- this is the base model tire size. The std. Cayenne S size is 265/50R19, and the top end Cayenne GTS size is 275/45R18. I think these guys are on their game- the test results are well documented with eye candy-bar graphs and spider charts. Sections on the site that have snow tire recommendations emphasize the savings to the consumer by sizing down on a dedicated snow tire/wheel set up due to the smaller sizing. While I could not find any reference to the specific width differences in testing, I have a hunch they could supply some empirical data on the subject. The website is worth checking out. Oh- the Blizzak came out on top.

I love the tire rack website, because they actually did some testing, but again, as you mention, they don't seem to have any tests comparing wide vs narrow tires.

 

[wyowindrunner]

skinny tires at work- these guys a wild. Rally in Norway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBXB5...eature=related

 

[François Pugh]

skinny tires at work- these guys a wild. Rally in Norway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBXB5...eature=related

If you have studded tires, I think the skinnier ones will take the prize in almost all most conditions.