Most Innovative Brands?

[Brian Likes Pow]

Right around when the SXC came out didn't the k2 four come out as well?

I took a free demo at Waterville Valley in NH as they were really pushing people to try them out. First run and EVERYTHING changed right the on the spot for me. I needed no other convincing.

 

[Brian Likes Pow]

Right around when the SXC came out didn't the k2 four come out as well?

I took a free demo at Waterville Valley in NH as they were really pushing people to try them out. First run and EVERYTHING changed right the on the spot for me. I needed no other convincing.

Edit later on the Public Enemy. Yeah k2 was on point...probably still are I'm sure

edit edit...durrrr haha

 

[erdz]

This stirred a memory. In my neck of the woods, all the racers were using the Heschung Racer. Pretty much the last leather boot I think. It had a cable system for the buckles.
View attachment 29945

And then I thought of the Nordica Astral's , which I think were the first plastic boot that was comfortable. ( Compared to Lange-Flo, anything was comfortable)

View attachment 29947

I skied the Heschung in 71-72. Purchased from Pierre Lucot and Michel Cousin at Basque Sports in Boulder, Colorado

 

[K2 Rat]

As I was a little kid skiing on wooden skis, cable bindings and lace up leather boots, I certainly have lived through a lot of innovation in the ski industry. The first that come to mind are Head and Lange. Howard and Bob were instrumental in the progress of ski design.
Since the biggest changes I saw was in equipment in general, I can't say one brand was the leader. Starting in 1975, I raced on K2 Fours, K2 Fives , K2 710/810, Yamaha Paromounts, Spalding Squadra Corse, Blizzard Firebirds. I guess the sks got better over those 20 years, but I don't recall any major changes.
The big innovation I have seen is the shaped ski. Still amazing that I went from a 205 SL ski to a 165 cm.
Although Elan might have a forerunner in the shaped ski, my vote for the most innovative brand is K2. Besides producing the first fiberglass glass ski, they produced the first high performance shaped ski in the K2 Four. That ski certainly Jumpstarted Bode's career !!

 

[Living Proof]

Today, powder specific skis are everywhere. Not so in my initial days of skiing where all high end skis were either sl or gs. I remember being in Alta and renting a Rossignol Haute Route on a powder day. Very soft tip to help float. The "red routers" were unique, not sure the were the first. The rental contract stated "you break them, you bought them", was glad to give them back.

I did own Nordica plastic boots the first year they were introduced. Bright red which was definitely out of the box thinking in the era of black leather boots.

 

[Philpug]

Right around when the SXC came out didn't the k2 four come out as well?

I took a free demo at Waterville Valley in NH as they were really pushing people to try them out. First run and EVERYTHING changed right the on the spot for me. I needed no other convincing.

The SCX came out a few years before the Four.

As I was a little kid skiing on wooden skis, cable bindings and lace up leather boots, I certainly have lived through a lot of innovation in the ski industry. The first that come to mind are Head and Lange. Howard and Bob were instrumental in the progress of ski design.
Since the biggest changes I saw was in equipment in general, I can't say one brand was the leader. Starting in 1975, I raced on K2 Fours, K2 Fives , K2 710/810, Yamaha Paromounts, Spalding Squadra Corse, Blizzard Firebirds. I guess the sks got better over those 20 years, but I don't recall any major changes.
The big innovation I have seen is the shaped ski. Still amazing that I went from a 205 SL ski to a 165 cm.
Although Elan might have a forerunner in the shaped ski, my vote for the most innovative brand is K2. Besides producing the first fiberglass glass ski, they produced the first high performance shaped ski in the K2 Four. That ski certainly Jumpstarted Bode's career !!

K2 was the most innovative brand in marketing, going back to The Performers. As far as technology? Triax Braiding with the 5500/TRC, maybe. Peizo on the Four "If it's blinkin', it's thinkin'. Maybe. The Four was just being in the right place at the right time. No one ever said "This Four will kill it in the race course..", they got lucky that Bode tried it.

 

[Uncle-A]

Re Hexcel, I'm pretty sure that it was the same company.

When I was in college, in the mid 70's, the brand was flying high. The East Coast distributor was "Bunny" Bass, of the GH Bass Shoe Company. They were based in Wilton, Maine. Right near Farmington. Bunny had a serious ski background.

He provided a couple of my college teammates with skis, and I drove over there once or twice with one or the other. He also distributed Raichle boots, which were nothing great at the time. Years before the Flexon! Luckily he did not try to get these guys into that boot.....or into a Rosemont. I think he may have even owned Rosemont. And even he would joke with us about them. "The releasable boot." I think he also had a pole company.

One of those two guys was really hard on skis, but he had grown up in Farmington, was a great kid, and he kept on getting more skis. I do recall that mounting them was a tedious process. The US distributor for K2 was in the same area, and I think he was related to Bass somehow. In those early days the K2 fours blew up faster than the Hexcels! But when the Five was built, many of us were begging for the ski. I'm pretty sure that Bucky Kashiwa might have been involved in the design of the five, right out of college. I think his real design for them was the 710 and 810. Obviously before the early Volant days. One. Smart. Dude.

Have to weigh in on the Head XR-1. Lucky to have had a couple of pairs. Loved that ski. Great trade @Doug Briggs ! And I love the picture, with TP's Lange's. What a character! One of my older ski buddies knew him pretty well. He told a great story of Tyler arriving at a late spring race, maybe the Sugar SL at Stowe, just because it was a great day. This is when he was a WC skier, before his pro days. So maybe 1970? He was riding his motorcycle, with his skis strapped on it. After the race, and I assume a beer or two, he looks at my friend and says "You want these? Riding the bike with them is a pain in the ass!"

I hope that he's dealing as well as possible with his health challenges. He's four years older than I am, and to me, a key player in US skiing. Great coach in his later years. And I think the first American to win a WC SL. Tyler had one speed. Overdrive. Rueben T Palmer the Fifth. What a hoot. He made Bode seem like a conformist!

Fun thread.

What year did Killy join K2 because he came with his own ski designer/coach from Dynamic and I think he had a lot to do with the K2 racing line. I thought Kashiwa came later.

 

[Muleski]

What year did Killy join K2 because he came with his own ski designer/coach from Dynamic and I think he had a lot to do with the K2 racing line. I thought Kashiwa came later.

Correct, other than the timing at K2. Bucky was a very young engineer at K2. Michel Arpin was an older self taught genius. Arpin deserves ALL of the credit for the success of the VR17, and for essentially being Killy's coach, and "ski guy."
The K2 710 was Bucky's baby, but no chance that it would have been the real race ski that it was without Arpin mentoring him.
My understanding is that Bucky was the guy who essentially transformed the four into the five....or at least make many of the suggestions.
Assume Arpin was an inspiration in terms of the creation of Volant.

Michel Arpin was a legend. If you had a pair of VR17's that had the white flex pattern and any other "notes" in his handwriting, which had escaped the French team, you had the real deal.

https://www.skiinghistory.org/lives/michel-arpin

 

[Uncle-A]

I have skied on the 17's but not the ones you talk about and I still have a pair of 27's, they are a great ski. I did own a pair of 710's but that was not one of my favorite skis and got rid of them very fast. Guess I could not find my spot on them. With my Dynamics I ski them over the center and they are great and my Kastles I ski forward and they are great just could not find the spot on the 710's to get the most out of them. The Volant skis that I owned skied well over the center not problem with those and a friend of mine still has them and loves the ski. So it looks like I have owned and skied on the Arpin and Kashiwa skis they are innovative and deserve a place on this list.

 

[DanoT]

Does anyone remember the boot from Nordica in the early 80s (might have been lare 70s) that had a second buckle from the toe with a bale that was attached to a plastic strap that could be rotated 360* and was tied to a vise like mechanism inside the shell? This set up allowed for infinite, custom width adjustment in the heel pocket and went a long way toward addressing heel hold down.

While the boot itself wasn't anything special, I thought that the width adjustable heel pocket was very innovative and should have been further developed.

 

[Muleski]

Does anyone remember the boot from Nordica in the early 80s (might have been lare 70s) that had a second buckle from the toe with a bale that was attached to a plastic strap that could be rotated 360* and was tied to a vise like mechanism inside the shell? This set up allowed for infinite, custom width adjustment in the heel pocket and went a long way toward addressing heel hold down.

While the boot itself wasn't anything special, I thought that the width adjustable heel pocket was very innovative and should have been further developed.

I don't specifically recall that boot, but the boot that so many loved to hate, the Salomon rear entry SX series had two similar adjustments. One that "snugged down" the forefoot with a similar fine adjustment. The other was a system to pull the heel back into the boot, with a small wheel adjustment on the real cuff lever. It was attached to a wire that ran over the instep and snugged up the base of the tongue. Sort of make the boot skiable. Pretty neat design.

 

[Philpug]

Does anyone remember the boot from Nordica in the early 80s (might have been lare 70s) that had a second buckle from the toe with a bale that was attached to a plastic strap that could be rotated 360* and was tied to a vise like mechanism inside the shell? This set up allowed for infinite, custom width adjustment in the heel pocket and went a long way toward addressing heel hold down.

While the boot itself wasn't anything special, I thought that the width adjustable heel pocket was very innovative and should have been further developed.

That was the Nordica Comp

 

[Mothertucker]

Hey Phil, izzat Andy Mill the tarpon guy on the left?

 

[Philpug]

Hey Phil, izzat Andy Mill the tarpon guy on the left?

Ask @Muleski but it looks like his hair.

 

[Pequenita]

Does anyone remember the boot from Nordica in the early 80s (might have been lare 70s) that had a second buckle from the toe with a bale that was attached to a plastic strap that could be rotated 360* and was tied to a vise like mechanism inside the shell? This set up allowed for infinite, custom width adjustment in the heel pocket and went a long way toward addressing heel hold down.

While the boot itself wasn't anything special, I thought that the width adjustable heel pocket was very innovative and should have been further developed.

I had a pair of Nordicas in the mid-80s that had a dial on the back of the shell that somehow would tighten/loosen the heel pocket. I guess mine were an update??

 

[DanoT]

I don't specifically recall that boot, but the boot that so many loved to hate, the Salomon rear entry SX series had two similar adjustments. One that "snugged down" the forefoot with a similar fine adjustment. The other was a system to pull the heel back into the boot, with a small wheel adjustment on the real cuff lever. It was attached to a wire that ran over the instep and snugged up the base of the tongue. Sort of make the boot skiable. Pretty neat design.

I had the orange SX90 Equipe, good heel hold down but like most rear entry boots they limited ankle flexion and thus somewhat interfering with the ability to get the knees forward over the skis.

Doesn't @mdf ski on the "newer" red ones?

 

[Philpug]

I had a pair of Nordicas in the mid-80s that had a dial on the back of the shell that somehow would tighten/loosen the heel pocket. I guess mine were an update??

That was a common feature in most rear entry boots, what @DanoT is referring to is how the heels pocket came in from the side..like a vice.

 

[mdf]

Doesn't @mdf ski on the "newer" red ones?

Nope - the even newer yellow and blue ones.

 

[Philpug]

Nope - the even newer yellow and blue ones.

I don't think there was a red SX92/93

 

[squill]

What are you thinking $$$ wise.?

Best guess probably around of $1,500 for first edition AT and +$1,000 for DH.