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Mancuso & Winter Olympics

Monique

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If she gets total hip replacement, big-hit, big mountain skiing is a dicey proposition. The stress level on the hip joint with the big drops is really big, and it shortens the lifespan of the prosthetics used.

I want more video footage of powder tree skiing. Big mountain is cool, but I cheer when I see those pillow lines. Don't know if there are so few because weather doesn't cooperate or because I'm in the minority. But surely that's in the scope of a hip replacement?
 

crgildart

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Mancuso skiing somewhere, anywhere is probably more likely than the Olympics actually happening at the rate things are decaying in the Korean Peninsula. I'm more worried about the venue itself than any of the particular athletes. Is there a back up plan in place to move them yet?
 

Rudi Riet

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I want more video footage of powder tree skiing. Big mountain is cool, but I cheer when I see those pillow lines. Don't know if there are so few because weather doesn't cooperate or because I'm in the minority. But surely that's in the scope of a hip replacement?

Here are the things that someone with total hip replacement isn't supposed to do on skis:

- Regular big cliff drops (situationally - to get out of a SNAFU - no problem, just don't make it a habit)
- Big-hit jumps in terrain parks
- Moguls (save for situational - i.e. they can't be your bread-and-butter)

Everything else is fair game, including racing (though big air in speed events had best be avoided, or the athlete had best have great pre-jump and smooth landing skills). So pillow lines are absolutely fine! I know I plan to do some if the opportunity presents itself this coming winter.
 

Muleski

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I don't doubt she's done but I have a hard time with the never really taken it seriously stuff. Whatever you haven't had in WC results from her you've had in stoke and inspiration and modelling for kids that skiing can still be fun at the top level. & Olympic medals that many "serious" athletes would kill for. There is room for both LVs and JMs in sport. I know who I'd rather ride a chair with and take a lap with.

I don't believe that I said "never taken seriously", and not sure if anybody else did, but if so that would be a mistake. Because of her talent, and ability, she has some very good years and very, very good results. This was not somebody just hanging in and hoping for her next WC start. I think that she finished in the top five of the WC overall maybe three times? Seven WC wins is something that any kid would aspire to. Five medals? Same thing. That is all good stuff. For most GREAT stuff.

At the risk of being redundant, the "conflict" in this comes from the various parts of the puzzle. Natural athleticism and talent is one. I have no way to quantify this, though there are no doubt testing records somewhere deep in the USST, but it's generally acknowledged that she is not just a phenomenal athlete and skier, but maybe the best that the USST has ever had, and one of the top in the world....all time. Old timers talk about what an incredible athlete Tamara McKinney was, and Mancuso is in another league. When she was a teen, it is ALL you heard. It's part of rthe reason why she made her WC debut in her first year as a FIS skier, at 15.

Add to that her touch and ski ability, which again in the eyes of many/most coaches was always just off the charts. A lot of it was just mileage as a kid at Squaw chasing her siblings. She is fearless. That gets noticed as a kid. Add the athleticism and what was observed on snow. She was noticed early on. Like a MS, and LV.

I have heard stories of her "killing it" in most every athletic endeavor. Soccer. Better than anybody, including all the boys, etc. There are no such LV stories, and fewer MS ones.

She was also a kid full of personality, and enthusiasm. All good.

So, back to skiing, she raced in three consecutive Jr. World Champs, which by itself is unusual. She won eight medals, including five golds. That is off the charts. A record. However, keep in mind that she was skiing on the World Cup at the time: ages 18-20. And the consensus, all over the tour was that this was just a phenom. To out in today's terms, a Mikaela. Once a generation.

And, while she has had a very good career, a great career by many measures, it is NOT what people super serious about this business had thought it would be. And there is no getting around the fact that all of those things that I posted above enter into the conversation. And the big one is how hard did she or would she work. There seems to have been a big disconnect between her talent and her results. Women who win big, and bigger than ever before on every stage as a junior are expected to have more than seven WC wins.

I have heard it mostly attributed to her being very, very difficult, spoiled, demanding to be on her own program, and the concensus that what she considered to be hard, productive work in the off season was not in line with the team, the coaches, the rest of the sport. It may not be fair, it may be mean. She seriously underachieved relative to her potential. Some of it is injury. But you can't believe how many coaches I this country and abroad dump on Maui, the surfing, etc. Her family background is no secret, and it's probably not fair, but it adds to the spoiled piece. Too much talent. Not enough work. Spoiled. Is it fair? Cruel?

I guess that this discussion may have taken off without giving JM enough "credit' for her personality, enthusiasm, fun, etc. Because she is ALL of that.

BTW, all that I hear and see is that every single young girl in the sport wants to be like Mikaela. I have seen it at so many events. Julia is barely on the radar screen. I think she was, big time, more like 5-10 years ago. As was LV. I recall the two of them at US Nationals 8, 9, 10 years ago. Hugely popular with kids and fans, endless autographs. Now, all MS, by a long shot.

I agree there is room for a lot of people in the sport....for everybody in fact.
 

4ster

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I have heard it mostly attributed to her being very, very difficult, spoiled, demanding to be on her own program, and the concensus that what she considered to be hard, productive work in the off season was not in line with the team, the coaches, the rest of the sport. It may not be fair, it may be mean.

& we could probably say the same about the Mahre's, Bode (well, maybe not the spoiled part), Tomba & probably many other greats. Artists are temperamental. ;) .

Wherever she is today, she was doing media stuff with Shiffrin & a few other Olympians today:


I have always been a Mancuso fan from back in the days when she was a kid & the one to beat in the Tahoe area. I remember always rooting for her to beat Vonn when they where in the same race. It didn't happen often, but once in a while. Oh, & I don't think anyone is shaking a stick at her podium record, it is better than most. Whether I am a fan of someone or not is my personal choice. It is no reflection on them as human, I could not possibly walk in their shoes.
With that said, I remember a few years ago golfing with a coach friend who had just returned from working with the USST at a speed camp & without going into details he alluded to the same about her work ethic & seemed a little disappointed. Granted this was AFTER her major hip issues had begun.

As far as being a fan though, since she showed up Mikaela can do no wrong :).
She may not be the best at answering silly shotgun questions but...
 

4ster

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The "fact" that Ski Racing is serious business and should be given the reverence it deserves by the great unwashed masses, is... EXACTLY what is wrong with Ski Racing.

Sliding around on snow with slabs of wood plastic and metal on your feet and sticks in your hands is silly. Trying to get to the bottom of the hill faster than your buddy is silly. PAYING people to professionally slide around? F'ng ludicrous.

Athletes & sports are entertainment, entertainers get paid :huh:.
 

BMC

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I don't believe that I said "never taken seriously", and not sure if anybody else did, but if so that would be a mistake. Because of her talent, and ability, she has some very good years and very, very good results. This was not somebody just hanging in and hoping for her next WC start. I think that she finished in the top five of the WC overall maybe three times? Seven WC wins is something that any kid would aspire to. Five medals? Same thing. That is all good stuff. For most GREAT stuff.

At the risk of being redundant, the "conflict" in this comes from the various parts of the puzzle. Natural athleticism and talent is one. I have no way to quantify this, though there are no doubt testing records somewhere deep in the USST, but it's generally acknowledged that she is not just a phenomenal athlete and skier, but maybe the best that the USST has ever had, and one of the top in the world....all time. Old timers talk about what an incredible athlete Tamara McKinney was, and Mancuso is in another league. When she was a teen, it is ALL you heard. It's part of rthe reason why she made her WC debut in her first year as a FIS skier, at 15.

Add to that her touch and ski ability, which again in the eyes of many/most coaches was always just off the charts. A lot of it was just mileage as a kid at Squaw chasing her siblings. She is fearless. That gets noticed as a kid. Add the athleticism and what was observed on snow. She was noticed early on. Like a MS, and LV.

I have heard stories of her "killing it" in most every athletic endeavor. Soccer. Better than anybody, including all the boys, etc. There are no such LV stories, and fewer MS ones.

She was also a kid full of personality, and enthusiasm. All good.

So, back to skiing, she raced in three consecutive Jr. World Champs, which by itself is unusual. She won eight medals, including five golds. That is off the charts. A record. However, keep in mind that she was skiing on the World Cup at the time: ages 18-20. And the consensus, all over the tour was that this was just a phenom. To out in today's terms, a Mikaela. Once a generation.

And, while she has had a very good career, a great career by many measures, it is NOT what people super serious about this business had thought it would be. And there is no getting around the fact that all of those things that I posted above enter into the conversation. And the big one is how hard did she or would she work. There seems to have been a big disconnect between her talent and her results. Women who win big, and bigger than ever before on every stage as a junior are expected to have more than seven WC wins.

I have heard it mostly attributed to her being very, very difficult, spoiled, demanding to be on her own program, and the concensus that what she considered to be hard, productive work in the off season was not in line with the team, the coaches, the rest of the sport. It may not be fair, it may be mean. She seriously underachieved relative to her potential. Some of it is injury. But you can't believe how many coaches I this country and abroad dump on Maui, the surfing, etc. Her family background is no secret, and it's probably not fair, but it adds to the spoiled piece. Too much talent. Not enough work. Spoiled. Is it fair? Cruel?

I guess that this discussion may have taken off without giving JM enough "credit' for her personality, enthusiasm, fun, etc. Because she is ALL of that.

BTW, all that I hear and see is that every single young girl in the sport wants to be like Mikaela. I have seen it at so many events. Julia is barely on the radar screen. I think she was, big time, more like 5-10 years ago. As was LV. I recall the two of them at US Nationals 8, 9, 10 years ago. Hugely popular with kids and fans, endless autographs. Now, all MS, by a long shot.

I agree there is room for a lot of people in the sport....for everybody in fact.
She may not be (and probably isn't) interested in achieving the results others had in mind for her. I think it's pretty clear she didn't. She seems pretty comfortable in herself.

I wish I had the talent to achieve at the top level as she does, and not have to work as hard as others. I don't. Most don't. It is what it is. It happens all the time in sport. The highest achievers often aren't (usually aren't) the most naturally talented.
 

crgildart

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Athletes & sports are entertainment, entertainers get paid :huh:.

Ya, maybe 2% of them get paid well enough to earn a living "entertaining". Most have day jobs and side gigs. Entertaining is far more of a serious hobby than a living for most.
 

Eleeski

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Here are the things that someone with total hip replacement isn't supposed to do on skis:

- Regular big cliff drops (situationally - to get out of a SNAFU - no problem, just don't make it a habit)
- Big-hit jumps in terrain parks
- Moguls (save for situational - i.e. they can't be your bread-and-butter)

Everything else is fair game, including racing (though big air in speed events had best be avoided, or the athlete had best have great pre-jump and smooth landing skills). So pillow lines are absolutely fine! I know I plan to do some if the opportunity presents itself this coming winter.

I got the Birmingham hip. Same one as Floyd Landis. No limitations on my skiing. I've been waterskiing at a pretty high level. A couple very nasty falls with no consequences. As an aside, my snow skiing, especially on ice, really improved after the new hip. A new hip for Julia might really help her skiing for a long time at a high level.

Julia's awesome and I wish her the best. Especially if she earns her spot.

Eric
 

Rudi Riet

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I got the Birmingham hip. Same one as Floyd Landis.

The Birmingham process is a resurfacing, yes? So it's a little different than a total hip (THR), and works well for people who don't already have hardware and whose bones aren't necrotic. Given JM has already had some "adjustment" surgeries (I'm guessing the Birmingham is probably part of that), I'm not sure she can get another Birmingham. The next step is total hip (THR), which has more restrictions.

FYI: the reason I couldn't do the Birmingham hip is that my femoral neck (the trochanter) was necrotic, so there wasn't anything truly solid to moor the shorter prosthesis of a Birmingham head unit (dead bone won't hold up over time). So I had to go THR, though I went with a system that's cutting-edge in terms of smoothness and durability (ceramic head, cross-linked polymer acetabular cup).
 
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SkiSpeed

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https
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDdcrEmnqLw

I have placed two links to YouTube for folks to consider: Julia's 2nd place finish at Bad Kleinkirchheim on the Klammerstich and her 3rd place finish at a Freeride competition at Verbier. Both these runs show the two sides of Julia. The DH at BK was a great run for JM, despite her losing to "Das Power Frau," Liz Goergl and it is a great course; glad to see it on the WC schedule for this year (pay attention to the second and third gates; the race was won and lost there!). There is no question, at least for me, about her ability and her fearlessness.

This thread exemplifies other conversations we have had, notably what it takes to develop a ski racer (cost, time, and opportunity) and discussions about the USST criteria for making and staying on the team. I think the conversation has been "super respectful." No one is denying that she is a killer skier, but if you are a ski racing fan, you can question whether or not she has lived up to her potential. Launching onto WC at 15 is no mean feat and maybe it is worthwhile to compare her to others who have had similar talent, e.g. Lara Gut (16), Maria Hoefl Riesch (17), and Tina Maze (17); I am intentionally leaving MS out of this. Gut, MHR, and Maze have medals and globes to their name. For Julia, medals, yes, Globes, no. One thing that I always found really interesting about MHR is that she ended her career with 12 victories in DH and 12 victories in SL. If that doesn't show all around skills, I don't know what does. Comparing JM to other racers who broke into WC in their teens helps to support the argument that while her career has been excellent, see @Muleski's insightful posts, there is room to raise the argument that she could have achieved more. Is it fair to say this? I don't know, but in the sporting world, when a prodigy explodes onto the scene, big things are expected. Consider that if MS were to retire at the end of this year, would there be any question as to her dominance and skills? Given the limited spots available on the team, there comes a time when the team and racer need to cut ties.

As a fan, I want to see our best racers competing. It isn't mean or inappropriate to question whether or not Julia should race in the Olympics; if she can come back and ROCK the WC in speed events and earn her spot, I am good, but if she is simply given a spot based on past performance, then I am not supportive. I can think of two Austrians, Leohnard Stock and Andrea Fischbacher, who won gold medals (Stock 1980 DH & Fischbacher 2010 SG ) who were not selected to defend their titles. In Fischbacher's case, one of the racers who was selected, Anna Fenniger (Veith), won the SG Gold. We can argue about whether or not the Austrian's were heartless, but there is no denying their commitment to putting their best racers "at the time" out there.

Another point that was raised in the various posts was the need for Julia to have her own program (as did Bode). While I realize that the team allows certain racers that latitude, I would be much happier to see a more formalized team approach. I watch the Norwegians and think that their men's speed team benefits from training with the Big Norwegian; I believe that is one of the reasons why Jansrud has developed into the speed skier he is and it will also continue to benefit Kilde's development. I would love to see more of that with our team. I remember the Canadian Downhillers (win or crash), Hunter, Murray, Read, Irwin, & Podborski, and how they worked together and produced great results.

If the scouting on JM is correct, then this resolves itself, but thinking about Julia's career and how to evaluate it in terms of her time spent on WC and her results is fair game for analysis.
 

Muleski

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Take Two!

That race was one of her last two really strong DH's. The 2nd pace at B-K was in 2012. The next was a 3rd at Lake Louise in December of 2014. Both were when she was healthy.

Interestingly, the B-K race was when she was in a Lange boot {which she has been almost all of her career}, and on Volkl. Volkl had signed her to a big deal. She subsequently signed a deal with Head, allegedly for a very big payday, and the promise of incredible speed skis. Problem was, I hear, that they had a horrible time building a boot for her that worked for her. "Worked" could be a combination of things. But they never clicked. Her seems to have made great boots for women with tiny feet {Gut and Veith} and women with big feet {LV and MHR, notably}, but Mancuso and Head was not a great success. She then moved back into the Lange boot, and onto Stockli. And unfortunately has had the injuries.

When she was healthy and on the race course, no denying that she showed a lot of guts and grit...and talent. No question. She has also been very "slight" for somebody who eventually became a speed specialist. A couple of years ago, I bet LV had 50+ lbs on her. Look at Lara Gut, Tina Weirather, Goggia, etc. They are "sturdy", and part of that sturdiness comes from pushing a lot of metal, to start with.

I'm sad to see it unfolding as it has for the past few years......

Great point by @SkiSpeed relative to the Attacking Vikings.....Norway.
 

Monique

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She has also been very "slight" for somebody who eventually became a speed specialist

I hate to admit this because it shows my ignorance ....

She was at a movie premier last winter, signing autographs and taking pictures, and several of us (clearly not racing fans) were speculating as to whether she was a skier. Her legs - thighs particularly - seemed rather small, so I assumed not.

I have no idea what her thighs looked like before the surgery and rehab, of course, and everybody's got a different muscle build ....
 

SkiSpeed

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@Muleski, I agree; when she was on the Volkl ski and Lange boots, she seemed really dialed in. When she made the switch to Head, her results suffered. I heard many year's ago that she always had boot fitting issues and that she was using someone in Aspen to help get them set. We all love to talk skis day in/day out, but boots, wow, if those aren't working, then you're toast.
 

Muleski

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I hate to admit this because it shows my ignorance ....

She was at a movie premier last winter, signing autographs and taking pictures, and several of us (clearly not racing fans) were speculating as to whether she was a skier. Her legs - thighs particularly - seemed rather small, so I assumed not.

I have no idea what her thighs looked like before the surgery and rehab, of course, and everybody's got a different muscle build ....

She has always pretty slight for an alpine racer, IMO. Nobody would have confused her with LV, for example. And nobody would confuse her with some of the shorter women who are just powerful, like Lara Gut. But she is not totally unlike Anna Veith, who has never been "big" and just looks athletic. Julia has always looked like that, and always moved like the athlete that she is.

Having said that she looks smaller to me than ever, and I wonder if it might be because of her hips, and her medical advice. Dunno.

Even MS is a lean body type, but an exceptionally strong one, who has added muscle mass each year, and will probably continue to do so. She's just 22.

Julia is 33.

Film of the past few days has me kind of sad. Shows that this is a business, among other things. That has to be kept in mind.
 
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Started at 53

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Film of the past few days has me kind of sad. Shows that this is a business, among other things. That has to be kept in mind.

You mean the FB stuff with the questions and answer sessions?

Those were unwatchable (and yes I tried about 5 different ones)
 

Muleski

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You mean the FB stuff with the questions and answer sessions?

Those were unwatchable (and yes I tried about 5 different ones)

Yes, her social media, the US skiing FB stuff, some other feeds. This USA media event was a big party.
Struggled through most, thinking I was missing something.

BTW, when she is left to her own, Mikaela is no polished media star. Makes one realize how sheltered her life has been in some ways. Mom has been right there, every minute of every day.
M seems very mature in some ways, the reverse in others.

She now is in her first real relationship, with a good guy, I hear. Sounds like all of her peers, and the ski world think it is a GREAT thing. Guess she is super happy. Probably very hard for mom to let go. Gives Eileen more time to manage Mikaela's "team", coaching staff, and a lot of the USST.
 
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