MA Request: Sliding through top of turn

[davjr96]

Lately I've been feeling myself slide through the top of the turn/in transition. I can even see it in my tracks from the lift, pretty good railroad tracks through the apex until I start going the other way and then it gets messy but cleans up again through the next apex. I had a friend try and get a good video of this happening but unfortunately I actually felt pretty good on this section of the hill... Does anything jump out at you guys that could cause this? Watching the video I notice I am dropping my inside hand which could possibly be pushing my weight back? Also if you notice anything else unrelated feel free to call me out I have never actually taken a lesson or had coaching so any tip is appreciated.
Skis are FIS SL Racetigers 157cm, 3/.75 and super sharp. Boots are Lange RS130 with no canting and a custom footbed.


I also have a video on much steeper terrain but I do not think it came out as good for MA and I was getting tossed around on some fresh snow.


Thanks!

 

[HDSkiing]

So I’ll take a stab.

Pretty good skiing actually, particularly in the first video.

More so in the second video, your upper body is not as quiet, it may be that your pole plants are inducing a little bit of rotation (blocking force), to compensate you may be pushing out with your heels, resulting in that little skid.

Maybe try not using the poles to plant as much as to initiate the turn, keeping the arms and the pole swings to a minimum, it might help you lock into that carve sooner.

At your level it’s always be some thing little, nice skiing!

 

[Josh Matta]

@davjr96 should you push or balance on your outside ski?

 

[davjr96]

So I’ll take a stab.

Pretty good skiing actually, particularly in the first video.

More so in the second video, your upper body is not as quiet, it may be that your pole plants are inducing a little bit of rotation (blocking force), to compensate you may be pushing out with your heels, resulting in that little skid.

Maybe try not using the poles to plant as much as to initiate the turn, keeping the arms and the pole swings to a minimum, it might help you lock into that carve sooner.

At your level it’s always be some thing little, nice skiing!

Thank you! These poles are actually a little bit long for me, I have a shorter pair but I didn't want to free ski with SL pole guards haha. That could definitely be causing my blocking force.

@davjr96 should you push or balance on your outside ski?

Hmm I guess I've always though of it as a balanced push hahaha. I definitely try and push the tip to get some rebound out of the ski on turn exit, but I also try and stay balanced on it.

 

[fullStack]

Lately I've been feeling myself slide through the top of the turn/in transition. I can even see it in my tracks from the lift, pretty good railroad tracks through the apex until I start going the other way and then it gets messy but cleans up again through the next apex. I had a friend try and get a good video of this happening but unfortunately I actually felt pretty good on this section of the hill... Does anything jump out at you guys that could cause this? Watching the video I notice I am dropping my inside hand which could possibly be pushing my weight back? Also if you notice anything else unrelated feel free to call me out I have never actually taken a lesson or had coaching so any tip is appreciated.
Skis are FIS SL Racetigers 157cm, 3/.75 and super sharp. Boots are Lange RS130 with no canting and a custom footbed.


I also have a video on much steeper terrain but I do not think it came out as good for MA and I was getting tossed around on some fresh snow.


Thanks!

Good skiing. It looks like your left hand is dropping lower and getting farther back than your right hand. I think this is causing a lot of what @HDSkiing noticed.

 

[François Pugh]

My two cents: I can't see much in the video, but I noticed your head bobbing up and down a bit. Maybe you are not absorbing (flex to release) the virtual bump and end up being a little bit light for the top half of the next turn. Also, a tiny bit of pushing tails. Don't push your skis out; just roll them on edge and let them go where the edge takes them.
Caveat Emptor: I'm no instructor - I've only had three lessons

 

[slowrider]

Your in the backseat and yes you drop your inside hand.

 

[Jilly]

In the second video I see a little back seat. That could be related to the poles. Get the nose over the bindings, not the knees. First video, the skis are flattening when they're already pointed downhill, instead of across the hill. Therefore hard to early edge.

 

[James]

You're in the habit of making very shallow turns. Meaning you don't go across the hill much, you're in like a 3m corridor. Nothing wrong with that, but it's supporting your habits. The photo of you sitting back is pretty late in the turn- in the fall line. From there you lean in and push out the skis. Late in the turn you'll do a check turn, especially on the steeper stuff. Meaning you push hard to stop the skis or try to get the front to bite.
So, as you enter the turn at transition you are not moving into the new turn, but go back as in butt back toward tails. About halfway through you then fall inside. The problem with your turn shape is it supports this habit. At transition you're sort of headed into the fall line already. So going back just speeds you up, then you have to do something to turn, you go inside and push skis out. But not too much because we're back to the next turn and it has to be shallow to sit back.

As an excecise, try to make an arc uphill as far as you can go. Go straight down, get speed, then turn uphill. Make sure no one is coming first. To do that up to any height you can't just sit back and push the skis out. You've got to progressively move inside.

Do railroad tracks on a trail that's like 15 m wide and not steep. That forces you to set up for the coming turn and move in gradually.

Start skiing turns that come across the hill more. Those skis will do gs turns at 45mph easily. But you don't need to go fast. Slower is better. It's harder.

Take 4-6 inches off those poles or get new ones. They're absurdly long. Look at the still photo above. You're so low you could use short park poles. But don't go that short.

 

[davjr96]

Thanks for the input guys! I'm heading back out tomorrow and will try focusing on getting forward and rolling on edge instead of pushing. I'll bring my adjustable touring poles and short them. Also will definitely try widening my turn shape and the turning back up the hill excercise.
Thanks again!

 

[martyg]

1. Forget about pole plants. They are hampering you.
2. Do garlands - like for two weeks - with your feet at a constant width. Your feet are all over the place, which kills your BOS.
3. Do the creepy cat drill - like for two weeks - to get your weigh over your skis.
4. Both of the above will help you with your transition - which is where things go south (Jame's feedback will help in that regard).
5. By dropping your inside shoulder you cheat the pressure control on your outside ski. Garlands, with your downhill shoulder noticeably dropped, will help you capture that sensation.

Enjoy!

 

[jzmtl]

1. Not an instructor.
2. Sitting too far back on turn entry, overpowering the tail so they start to slide. The snow is good so they eventually gain traction and start to carve, but on ice you'd slide out and turn becomes hockey stop.
3. Dropping inside hand cause you to fall back, lose counter and pressure on outside ski.
4. You have good balance so once you get technique fixed you should improve very quickly.

 

[Chris V.]

Looking at both clips in slow motion, your shins look to be quite vertical in your boots during many of the times that we're able to get a good view of you. It's hard, for me at least, to see exactly what's going on there--it might be the gear, or it might only be your technique--but I WOULD suggest that you have someone take a close look at your setup. The boots could be preventing you from getting forward in them--or it might be just the opposite, that the forward flex is too soft, such that you collapse into the boots if you pressure them and hence you compensate by sitting back a bit. The fix for that could be as simple as buckling around the cuffs more firmly, or maybe adding a Booster Strap. If you have low calf volume, you might benefit from modifications that keep your calf from settling so far back. Etc., etc. These are just a sampling of ideas. The point is, go to an expert for an opinion that's actually worth something. Dialed-in gear will facilitate exploring changes to your movement patterns.

 

[Jilly]

This is something that really worked for me and is a drill I do the first run of the day.

Using AT LEAST a medium radius turn...at the end of the turn, release both edges and traverse across the hill. Bounce in your boots to lighten everything up and regain balance. After the third bounce, balance on the uphill ski, start your turn. Stay on that new downhill ski, don't push it, just ride it. Hope that makes sense.

 

[James]

Think guide the tips of your skis.

 

[Tom Holtmann]

1. Forget about pole plants. They are hampering you.
2. Do garlands - like for two weeks - with your feet at a constant width. Your feet are all over the place, which kills your BOS.
3. Do the creepy cat drill - like for two weeks - to get your weigh over your skis.
4. Both of the above will help you with your transition - which is where things go south (Jame's feedback will help in that regard).
5. By dropping your inside shoulder you cheat the pressure control on your outside ski. Garlands, with your downhill shoulder noticeably dropped, will help you capture that sensation.

Enjoy!

What is the creepy cat drill?

 

[Jamt]

Lately I've been feeling myself slide through the top of the turn/in transition. I can even see it in my tracks from the lift, pretty good railroad tracks through the apex until I start going the other way and then it gets messy but cleans up again through the next apex. ...!

There is nothing inherently wrong with skidding the turn entry, it can be used both for speed control and cutting the radius in the top part of the turn.
Regarding your skiing, there are a few minor problems, but the one I think is hurting you the most is that your hip angulation movement is not very progressive. You throw in your maximum hip angulation quite fast and then you wait until the turn forces over power your balance and then you make a quick flexing of the legs to move into the next turn. Try instead to have constant increase and decrease of the hip angulation. In turns where you need speed control the maximum hip angulation comes much later in the turn.
I think a good drill for you is to mix the turn shape, mix everything from flush turns to very long turns randomly, and also vary the edge angles accordingly.

 

[davjr96]

Thanks for all the advice guys! I spent most of the day playing around on lower/flatter terrain. I used shorter poles and started to focus on keeping my hands where I can see them throughout the entire turn. I could feel myself occasionally get lazy and drop my inside hand and almost feel myself being pulled back. Focusing on staying forward definitely helped. I also did the turn up the hill and garland drill which both took a little while to get used to but also helped I think. Lastly I messed around with lengthening my turns to a GS shape. That won't help me in an SL race course but did help me get the feel of cleaner arcs. All in all I felt a little better and think I just need some more time to practice these things.

In regards to boots: I understand these boots are probably not ideal for me comfort or performance wise. I got them for absurdly cheap new from a ski swap (please don't ban me ) and am just using them until I finish school and can afford to get a full fitted option, but for now it is what I've got. I might try and at least get the alignment checked by a good bootfitter I know.

Once again thanks for all the input!

 

[LiquidFeet]

@davjr96, you are getting all kinds of suggestions in this thread. Wade through them and find one thing to work on at a time. My suggestion would be to replace your backseat stance through transition with a centered/forward stance. It will make doing all the other things suggested here so much easier.

Here's your back seat issue. These stills are from both videos.

The common result is light/lifted shovels. The common cause is shins at a 90 degree angle to your skis and feet in front of you whole body.

Try instead holding your ankles "closed" like these two racers are doing; they keep their ankles closed even while standing around. "Closing the ankles" (dorsiflexing them) will get your feet back up under you. Close the ankles at to create a forward angle between the shin and the skis through the whole turn, but especially through your transitions where you are currently opening them:
Michaela on the left has an extreme angle. You don't need that much. But you do need to hold your ankles closed through transition, and currently you're opening them.

You can focus on the ankle' bend itself, on shin-tongue pressure, on pulling your feet back through transition, on pressing the shovel down onto the snow, or whatever works. Focus on this first; we learn one thing at a time.

While working on the ankles, I'd suggest completing your turns so you have time through transition to feel whether or not you are succeeding. I think James suggests rounder turns with more completion and longer transitions upthread. At the speed you are currently traveling, and with no finish to your turns, you don't have enough time in transition to even notice this back-seat thing creeping in. Complete your turns by heading across the slope between turns, and feel what your ankles are doing as you do that.

Nice skiing for no lessons ever!

 

[PTskier]

dav, look at your vid again. You are sliding through the top of the turn because you are pushing your heels out to the side immediately. This is the slide.

Find some easy terrain. Get up on the balls of your feet. Stay there. Hold your hands in a natural balancing position. A good pole tap is only a twitch of the wrist, no more. If it’ll help, hold your poles across your body with two hands, palms up as a drill.

Now, start the turn by rolling your skis up on their edges. Wait. Have patience. Allow the turn to develope. Let the turn come to you. Don’t drop your hip down nor press your knees down to the snow. Edge your skis and allow your body to drop toward the snow, but don’t force it.

Tighter turns are created by getting the skis farther back under you so you have more tip pressure and by edging more...never abruptly, always smoothly and progressively...and increasing the edging angle as the turn progresses. Not by throwing your heels out.