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Look Pivot or Tyrolia Attack?
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2017
- Posts
- 1,578
I'm standing on the shoulders of giants.
I'm glad someone is benefiting from all my prior mistakes.
I'm standing on the shoulders of giants.
Hahaha - they may be collapsed; circa 09? I got the crazy idea to gas pedal my boots 12mm - sking w @Philpug it was like I had 1/2 a ski....
Why did this
Why? Because the torque of doing GS turns at speed won't work well with the pivot heel? If that is the case and they can suck to get back into why would someone want to pay the premium?
Why? Because the torque of doing GS turns at speed won't work well with the pivot heel? If that is the case and they can suck to get back into why would someone want to pay the premium?
Maybe there’s an issue with the heels when running gates or something? I’ve skied the crap out of multple pairs of Pivots in all conditions in all types of terrain and never had an issue with them, so I don’t really get the criticism on that basis unless it’s perhaps something related to racing, in which I have no experience with them.
I have no issues getting into them either. You do have to make sure the heel piece is facing in the right direction, but other than that there’s no issue getting into them in any conditions.
For racing, it's a different Look-version called SPX/Rockerflex, or in Rossi flavor, Rockerflex. Great race bindings. Not sure what the differences are compared to a pivot which is made for leisure skiing. Same 'type' of heel though.
AFAIK Atomic are these days the same as Salomon. There's probably a STH2 with a different name. Great binding, have them on my DD:s. Just purchased Tyrolia Attack 13:s and they seem very legit too, no personal experience yet though but fiddling and hear-say.
AFAIK Atomic are these days the same as Salomon. There's probably a STH2 with a different name. Great binding, have them on my DD:s. Just purchased Tyrolia Attack 13:s and they seem very legit too, no personal experience yet though but fiddling and hear-say.
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Well, the Pivot (And FKS) was the heel of choice for years on Rossi and Dynastar race skis. Then they went to the PX heel, which had a longer mount design similar heel retention but without the turntable then to the new Rockerflex which has a shorter mount distance a la the Pivot. Why they jsut didn't go back to the Pivot heel? I an not sure. When I see the binding designer at SIA, I will ask him.
Actually, the Salomon and Atomic bindings share the same model names.
If I recall, Renoun only sells Pivots. I'm assuming that they did some in-depth research on this. You may do well to have a chat with @Cyrus Schenck and see what he has to say.
Thread Starter
TS
From Renoun.....
Our skis are engineered to be compatible with any binding on the market. These bindings, however, are the ones we like best.
Also from Renoun....
Bindings are a personal choice (just like skis) so if you have another preference, you should go for it. Getting a more 'advanced' binding never hurts, they just weigh more, on the scale & on the wallet.
They sell both the Pivot and the Look SPX bindings which are practically identical to Rossi's Axial bindings.
When the racers were using them, they were mounted to 1/2" thick metal plates to increase the torsional stability of th setup.
I guess that I would want to know why they like the Pivots the best. Personally, I use the Attack 16's and absolutely love them. I really like their very locked in feeling. I envy you those Renouns
I have no experience on the Attack. Lots of experience with the Look/Rossi/Dynastar Pivots, going back to when I had one child who was a comp'd athlete on the binding. A number made their way to me. They worked fine, but were often mounted on a plate or on skis that we would consider very narrow today. Have had more skis that I can count mounted with all metal Salomon race bindings.....think 916's for the most part.
When the STH-2 came out, I bought three pairs. Two 16's. One for me, and one for our daughter. One 13 for my wife. In short order, we have adopted that binding as our choice on any ski that does not come with a system binding. We have a lot of them in service. Just a really good reliable binding. Solid as a rock. Works on any ski.
I like the toe design. Always have. I decided that having a binding with a minimum DIN below nine might not be a bad idea, as I hit age 60, and dropped a lot of weight. STH-2 16 is DIN 7-16. I typically am at 10-11, sometimes a touch higher.
Pretty sure that I'd be fine in the 13, but I like the colors of the 16!
The downside for me on the Pivot was getting into them in deep snow. Super easy with the Solly.
Attack seems like a great binding, BTW. Hear nothing but pluses.
When the STH-2 came out, I bought three pairs. Two 16's. One for me, and one for our daughter. One 13 for my wife. In short order, we have adopted that binding as our choice on any ski that does not come with a system binding. We have a lot of them in service. Just a really good reliable binding. Solid as a rock. Works on any ski.
I like the toe design. Always have. I decided that having a binding with a minimum DIN below nine might not be a bad idea, as I hit age 60, and dropped a lot of weight. STH-2 16 is DIN 7-16. I typically am at 10-11, sometimes a touch higher.
Pretty sure that I'd be fine in the 13, but I like the colors of the 16!
The downside for me on the Pivot was getting into them in deep snow. Super easy with the Solly.
Attack seems like a great binding, BTW. Hear nothing but pluses.
Thread Starter
TS
They're not the only ski manufacturer pushing a binding brand...... I've heard mostly good stuff about the pivot/fks style binding but I've also heard the negatives. Having no personal experience on them I thought I would come here and get the low down.I guess that I would want to know why they like the Pivots the best. Personally, I use the Attack 16's and absolutely love them. I really like their very locked in feeling. I envy you those Renouns
I've lots of Look/Rossi bindings in my house. I've lots of Atomic (salomon) race bindings in my house. I've had some old Markers and Tyrolias. A lot of the skis I've bought in recent years came with system bindings. Many of the skis I've bought I did so with demo bindings on them and I did that so that my son could grow with them and so that others could easily use them with their boots or rental boots. When I retire and move out west I will have them all available for family friends to use. Obviously all my race boards are plate mounted race bindings that I can adjust however I need them as well.
This set of Renouns is different. I will buy the ski, I will buy the bindings, and then I will be going to a boot fitter who can not only fit the boot but do a whole system integration between myself, the boots, the bindings and the skis. This will mark the first time I've put this much time, effort, and money into integrating a whole set-up. Normally I get new skis and I have them hotboxed a couple times. Then I set the bindings to one of two pair of boots I use or I set them to my son's current set of boots. Then I maintain them myself. I've reached out to Matt Schiller at Park City Boot Room a couple times via email but he hasn't returned my emails (2 to date over the past month). I'm not too happy about that so I am looking elsewhere now for someone with similar skill and experience to set me up. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I'm pretty sure I read that Richard Howell thinks the pivot heel piece is more hazardous to the knee than most bindings. Mostly due to the metal wings at the heel not allowing The heel of the boot to slide out despite the pivot.
People have mixed opinions on his ideas, but personally it's enough to put me on other options.
I probably would pick Sth2 as my first choice but am not dogmatic about it.
People have mixed opinions on his ideas, but personally it's enough to put me on other options.
I probably would pick Sth2 as my first choice but am not dogmatic about it.
True. They do. Perhaps better not to go down that road. It was a disaster in the Epic ski days. Ugly. Didn't bring out the best in many people.
You could take another view which is that virtually every freestyle/freeride {pipe,etc} competitor used the binding for many years after it was initially discontinued, before it was brought back. I know somebody who bought as much NOS P-18 product as he could find from Look, and had pro skiers{fully comp'd and paid by their companies} wishing to pay a lot of money for them and calling his shop.
The P-18, as one example of the series, works for many, many people. There is a discussion on here about whether the P-15 is the best binding in history. I have seen my daughter come out, just fine, in a few 60mph+ crashes while in a FKS 185, years ago.
Everybody has their experiences. Most, I believe are positive with the Look. If you read through this, you'll see that the Renoun founder actually prefers the binding on his skis. He happens to live very close to Richard, and to KneeBindings home.
Richard has very firm opinions, and yes, this is his life's work. Always has been. Not sure if introducing them here helps, because it will get ugly. He's pretty polarizing, based on his thinking. Very bright, for sure. And I think well liked by very many.
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It is fun to obsess about this stuff, but in this case you are really nibbling at the margins. The good news is that if you've narrowed the choices to the Pivot, StH2 and Attack, you can't get it wrong. I have skis with all three and they are all excellent. And once you are clicked in, you'd have to be a pretty special skier to notice material performance differences resulting from the binding.
Given the choice, without considering price, I'd probably go for the one that looks the best with the skis (seriously!).
All else being equal, I'd probably choose the Sth2, because I like the ease of entry and exit in tough conditions, plus you get a reasonable adjustment range (if you ever change your BSL or boot type or if you want to trade skis with a friend who is close in BSL).
Enjoy your new skis.
Given the choice, without considering price, I'd probably go for the one that looks the best with the skis (seriously!).
All else being equal, I'd probably choose the Sth2, because I like the ease of entry and exit in tough conditions, plus you get a reasonable adjustment range (if you ever change your BSL or boot type or if you want to trade skis with a friend who is close in BSL).
Enjoy your new skis.
Thread Starter
TS
LOL! The color and din settings are making up my mind for me.......
Thread Starter
TS
So here is where we ended up....... I'll have them in a couple days.....
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They will be paired with these....... I will pull the trigger on the Renouns next week......
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Can't wait!!
View media item 1919
They will be paired with these....... I will pull the trigger on the Renouns next week......
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Can't wait!!
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Unless he puts a plate underneath,