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checkracer

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I just read the recent posts. Let me add some strictly personal comments.

(i) You lucky people. You´re enjoying the privilege to discuss whether Ms A is a suitable role model compared to Ms B while most of the rest of the ski world would be happy to have at least one. Sorry but it reminds me of a billionaire´s dilemma which champagne to take for breakfast to match the fresh caviar just delivered.

(ii) Well, I appreciate the depth of the discussion and the insights and info delivered. Good read and inspirative food for thought. Still, be happy to have them both, LV and MS.

(iii) Would you be surprised that a top-notch ski downhiller is not a decent sweet Cinderella? Sitting quiettly in a corner (which, as we know, nobody puts even Baby into)?

Well, those rare DH girls have never been that sort. Just inquire about Marielle Goitschel, Annemarie Moser-Proll, Michela Figini, all rather controversial persons. Katja Seizinger of the 90s, the cold German queen who quit and burned the bridges to DSV, the German Ski Federation, not inviting her teammates to her wedding. Renate Gotschl may have been a fairly „normal“ exception but Lindsey seemes to be a „standard“ DH specimen again.

(iv) There´s quite a lot of research on human personality. Including personality disorders describing non-standard personalities including those diplaying psychopathic traits. Trying to define (ICD-10 classification) narcissism under F60.8 and histrionic PD under F60.4. Or, for you Americans, DSM-5, cluster B, narcisstic and histrionic. Just look up histrionic PD and think of Lindsey.

From what I read (I´m not expert in this field, just an interested layman) there is some configuration in those people´s brains blocking or lacking some connections resulting, among others, in their fearlessness. Which could explain why she is so tough, fighting and successful. And, at the same time, why she behaves the way she does.

(v) It is often difficult to accept that exceptional people/sportspersons often are not those displaying the basic virtues generally valued and adored. Very often they are non-standard, complex, not exactly likeable as personalities – which, sad but true, made it possible for them to be that successful.

(vi) Alpine skiing should be happy to have its heroes of all sorts. You wouldn´t like to partner with lots of them but even scandalous wild dogs had/have made our sport popular. We have to accept that there are quiet, introvert and pious stars like Gustav Thoeni and naturals like Bill Johnson or Alberto Tomba. Decent girls like Liz Gorgl and histrionic stars like Lins. And, maybe, let´s hope, sweet and superb idols like Mikaela. That´s the way it is and that´s the way the sport goes.

Btw, I can think of at least 5 examples here, in a small country in Europe, of ski stars losing their excellent name and status on various reasons. A sad situation, believe me. Be happy you still have both girls you can be proud of.

There was also a question if there was a physical sport where women equal men. When Lindsey asked to ski the LL DH against men the first time a couple years back I did some research preceding an article I wrote on the topic. It seemed the only field comparable was – and you could argue if it´s a regular sport with standard competitions – extreme distance swimming. You Americans should know Ms Diana Hyad *1949 who swam the best time ever, men and women, on 102 miles between Bahamas and Florida in 1979, and was the first to swim from Cuba to Florida in 2013. While on shorter distances, e.g. the English Channel (England – France), men are faster, on extreme lenghts women are equal or even better. But, I repeat, this is not a regular standardized competition but individual efforts.
 

crgildart

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I think it's safe to say that Europe and FIS would have nothing to do with this. I do see some possibilities of a special event ala Billy Jean King versus Bobby Riggs circus. Is Bode old enough to make it interesting, or would we need to pull a Mahre brother out of retirement to face Vonn? Or, how about Bode versus Shiffrin in SL?
 

Monique

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David Chaus

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(iv) There´s quite a lot of research on human personality. Including personality disorders describing non-standard personalities including those diplaying psychopathic traits. Trying to define (ICD-10 classification) narcissism under F60.8 and histrionic PD under F60.4. Or, for you Americans, DSM-5, cluster B, narcisstic and histrionic. Just look up histrionic PD and think of Lindsey.

Not to nit-pick, but even on this side of the pond, the DSM-5 codes align with the ICD-10. Also it is considered standard practice to avoid diagnosing a personality disorder until you have personally treated or known the client for at least 12 months, or have good documentation from someone else who has.

Lastly, any disorder must meet criteria for “disorder,” that it, the behavior or condition impairs the individual’s ability to function in academic, occupational, social, or other domains. I’m not convinced she’s so socially impaired with her patterns of behavior as to not be able to maintain personal or professional relationships. Maybe people who know her personally can comment.
 

Primoz

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@checkracer I think it's pretty much normal noone of world's best athletes (in any sport) is anywhere near average personality. Afterall, if they would be, then they would be well average. You need much more then just good training, and good equipment to be best of the best. So expecting someone belonging to that super small group of people, who are best of the best in any kind of field, automatically makes you not average, in all areas, including behavior. I don't argue with that. Now if we like certain personality or not is on each of us, but no matter what it doesn't make achieved results any smaller or less important.
 

Tricia

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From what I read (I´m not expert in this field, just an interested layman) there is some configuration in those people´s brains blocking or lacking some connections resulting, among others, in their fearlessness. Which could explain why she is so tough, fighting and successful. And, at the same time, why she behaves the way she does.
You could say this about any high level athlete, which is why discussions on this topic can range from huge success to huge depression.
I'm of the thought that any athlete at this level needs to create a path of relevance after the career is done.

@checkracer I think it's pretty much normal noone of world's best athletes (in any sport) is anywhere near average personality. Afterall, if they would be, then they would be well average. You need much more then just good training, and good equipment to be best of the best. So expecting someone belonging to that super small group of people, who are best of the best in any kind of field, automatically makes you not average, in all areas, including behavior. I don't argue with that. Now if we like certain personality or not is on each of us, but no matter what it doesn't make achieved results any smaller or less important.
+1
 

karlo

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No way. The men's side will never have her on account of fear of her hurting herself. And, they will have Mikaela Shiffrin on the slalom course on account of (Paralyzing) Fear.
 

Muleski

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No way. The men's side will never have her on account of fear of her hurting herself. And, they will have Mikaela Shiffrin on the slalom course on account of (Paralyzing) Fear.

Agree that we're not going to see either one happen. I don't see any request coming at any time from Team Shiffrin, to race guys. No chance.
Don't see FIS turning any WC event into a carnival with this. Pretty sure that LV would just be slower than the guys at LL, which is the venue they are pushing for. Not sure if she'd have real injury risk there. She knows the hill inside and out {other than the men's start}.

Just a really dumb proposal. I also don't see the full voting body of FIS, when it comes to this kind of request coming close to supporting it. They think it makes no sense.

Classic LV.
 
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oldschoolskier

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I have to say I sometimes question what we are thinking. Girls skiing with guys, if they are good enough who cares.

We should really be concerned that there are few (maybe more than a few) kooks out there that could start WW3 and with what’s out there our ski seasons could be permanently cancelled.

Let’s worry about having fun and skiing. Personally I like skiing with girls they carve better curves than I do (compliment intended) and if they ski better than I do maybe I should take a lesson from them (wife permitting it of course).

:hug::beercheer:
 

Muleski

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I love skiing with girls, and always have. I almost always ski with one. I'm still a pretty fair skier, and my daughter just crushes me, and has for at least 10-12 years!

We were big supporter of two NCAA D1 ski teams, the only coed D1 sports at either school. They liked skiing with each other, and actually raced in their races on the same courses, at least in GS.

That's all different that the World Cup. I just don't want it to turn into a zoo, and "me too." FIS has enough challenges as is, and our skiers are so young that it's a challenge at times to get them into WC races. So I really don't thing we need to open this up to Bobby and Billy Jean,

If Red Bull wants to go all Evel Knevel, fine by me. LV will be all in with the right media exposure. Even she knows that at this point, no chance can she compete with the men. She is at the tail end of her career. It's been a great one. Tremendous one.

And racing men is not part of a WC career. Yet. Maybe I'm turning into a curmudgeon. I asked a friend who is the youngest US male skiing DH on the WC, and lets's say that he thinks it's just insane. The head coaches of BOTH the mens' and women's teams feel the same way. Not so sure where the support is coming from. The leadership has bigger things to worry about. The media types.....no comment.
 

Snuckerpooks

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I'd watch it...

But I don't see the sport as a whole gaining anything by this stunt.
 

Muleski

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Pretty sure she has ZERO money issues. She's the highest paid athlete in the sport. It could be that she is actually going to make money on this. It could be that she wants to be in another part of LA. It also could be that she realizes that since she has a private jet at her fingertips these days, LA got a whole lot closer to Vail. I think that when she bought it, her BF was still employed by the Rams as a coach. Not any longer. Just guessing that may have something to do with this.

She loves the red carpet, and the camera. Maybe she's going buy a place in Malibu?

I think she has very, very good representation and advisors. I also think she listens to them. I would bet dollars to donuts that we will see her income, marketability ad visibility actually increase in her post-race next career.

She is spending a lot of time in Vail. Her primary agent is based there, BTW.

May be that LA is what she thought it would be. Cool to visit, no need to own there.

Money issues....kinda doubt it.
 

François Pugh

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No way. The men's side will never have her on account of fear of her hurting herself. And, they will have Mikaela Shiffrin on the slalom course on account of (Paralyzing) Fear.
I don't think they will ever allow a woman to race against men on a Men's DH course.
I do not think there is any more danger of LV hurting herself than any other skier racing DH and going hard for 1st place.
I think LV would not be competitive racing against men, though she may not be the slowest.
The only hurt I can imagine are the few men who might have hurt egos due to having higher times than a woman, and I imagine most (maybe not all) of the men racing would be fine with what they accomplish regardless of what times LV accomplishes, accepting "it is what it is".
 

Frankly

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I expect her to have a good long career with her own ESPN sports show that covers football and other sports from a female POV. She has a good presence on TV and could even cross over into Oprah/Ellen territory.
 

Muleski

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I expect her to have a good long career with her own ESPN sports show that covers football and other sports from a female POV. She has a good presence on TV and could even cross over into Oprah/Ellen territory.

I would not be surprised AT ALL. If you watch her progress in front of the camera, and in interviews, it is pretty clear that she has been coached and that it is working. People refer to her personality, presence, confidence, etc. ALL good stuff. Five years ago, the USST was sort of terrified to have her speaking to donors one on one, let alone being on camera.

My impression is that she has always been driven and competitive and that energy and work ethic is going to serve her real well moving forward. I think it already is. I'll be rooting for her, for sure.

Would much rather see that than see her trying to race the guys!
 
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oldschoolskier

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I have to agree with @Muleski I think she is being groomed for something else to progress her career. The racing with men is news to bring her name to the forefront. Whether she does or not is the least of the concern.

Selling the home built, i suspect that the ROI is pretty good. Again see above (we all looked!).

Wait and see as only time will tell.
 

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