It's not so much about how well the ski handles variable conditions from morning muffins to afternoon debris and cinderblocks... It's more about what looks coolest in the lift line! Fat skis are cooler.. Knees be damned!!
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I am done with super fats unless I am cat skiing.
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OK so now a 90mm ski is considered what? Narrow or Mid-Range? Certainly not a fatty
I'm a little older and been away for a while I bought the Atomic Vantage 90 CTI and while I haven't skied powder on it I've been on Ice, packed powder, corduroy and crud and it's performed quite well and always put a smile on my face. I'm getting the feeling that this ski isn't wide enough for the deep stuff??? My favorite powder ski (remember I've been away a while) is/was a 210 GS ski (straights) and that went everywhere and I was never wanting for a pair of Haute Routes or Miller Softs, now with the new gear and reading what people use/want/need I'm wondering now if I'll have enough float on the Vantage 90, not really but I'm feeling out of the loop.
Why is it that people now need fat skis for powder that don't perform on groomers and more importantly why can't they ski powder on skinnier front side skis??? Did the snow change? Powder is easy for some and impossible for others at least in the old days, now???
Sorry for the thread-jack here
I'm a little older and been away for a while I bought the Atomic Vantage 90 CTI and while I haven't skied powder on it I've been on Ice, packed powder, corduroy and crud and it's performed quite well and always put a smile on my face. I'm getting the feeling that this ski isn't wide enough for the deep stuff??? My favorite powder ski (remember I've been away a while) is/was a 210 GS ski (straights) and that went everywhere and I was never wanting for a pair of Haute Routes or Miller Softs, now with the new gear and reading what people use/want/need I'm wondering now if I'll have enough float on the Vantage 90, not really but I'm feeling out of the loop.
Why is it that people now need fat skis for powder that don't perform on groomers and more importantly why can't they ski powder on skinnier front side skis??? Did the snow change? Powder is easy for some and impossible for others at least in the old days, now???
Sorry for the thread-jack here
Only some find that fat skis don't perform on groomers. I like my powder skis everywhere on days that started as powder days. There are better skis for when the fresh is gone but I don't choose to carry a quiver around with me. Storing it in my office and garage is sufficiently challenging.
For the converse, about not being able to ski powder on skinnier front side skis, just think back to how many people succeeded in enjoying powder on the long skinny skis versus those that didn't. It hasn't changed that much. Also consider that many people ski in a pretty static fashion and the technique that works on groomers isn't what works in powder; adaptation is required and is often a large part of the issue.
Powder is still a challenge for some and a walk in the park for others. Wider skis help convert the former into the latter and bring different opportunities to the latter should they choose to experience it.
I think it is time to bring this cartoon back out of the dark recesses of my PC.
The solution to not enough float is quite simple... no, not changing skis.... SKI FASTER!
You use words like "can" and "need." Consider that ski design is different today, and the carvers of today don't much resemble the straight skis you loved. There are so many different ski shapes and designs these days. They're fun! Celebrate diversity - don't be the old guy on the porch grousing, "Back in MY day ..."
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Before
Powder was for expert skiers only; a skill acquired after years of practice.
Now
Everyone can ski powder if their ski is wide enough
It’s not quite that simple but that’s a big part of it
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And there we have it if you like fat skis in soft snow you are not as worthy as a retro skinny skier was in the day. I don't get it people don't tell each other you're not a good driver if you're not driving a rwd sportscar in the snow + ice, why do they want to validate their own preferences by doing the same with skis.
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Wait till autonomous cars are the option vs driving it. It'll happen ...
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For me, it's all about planing quickly, and being able to make turns in places where I had to go straight 20 years ago. I love turns.
I don't want to ski faster. The size of the slopes at my local area is such that I don't want to "use up" the runs any more quickly than necessary!
Note that this defense is coming from a guy who strongly prefers narrower skis in the absence of new snow. But if there is pow to be slayed, I want to plane!
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What? I think you missed my intention or meaning. I was referring to the people, not the vast selection of different ski types. Ski design and materials have always changed through the years, wood, metal, fiberglass, long, short, long, cap etc. etc. It's always changed and it's always stayed the same. Skis, snow, gravity and ability
I totally understand the fun and diversity and yes, I'm a older, I don't have a porch and actually it's still my day
I am done with sub 100 skis on hardpack unless I'm skiing gates on injected..
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Bingo, that is what I've witnessed in just the last year.
Years ago there was almost always a spot to find un-tracked snow even days after a storm and I'm aware that the high speed chairs have changed the landscape drastically but to read that all the freshie is gone in a few hours and is now considered crud is crazy IMO.
I know the you would always have someone in over their heads on expert terrain but now those areas are flooded with skiers that are still in over their heads.
If the number of skiers doubled over the last 20 years I would understand but I believe the number of skiers has dropped so what's been the biggest change?
Well I've always been sort of out of the loop, so perhaps my impressions don't count for anything, but I think there has been a general attitude change, thanks in part to youtube and go-pro. It is now a bit of an elitist thing to be skiing the gnarley back country.
I recall back in eastern Canada in the late 1970s, the big thing was to be like the Crazy Canucks, You had to be able to ski moguls to boost your ego, but you didn't have to be good at it, just get through without falling, especially if you got through faster than the average skier. There was very little resort based back country downhill skiing available in eastern Canada (still isn't much), and the incentive wasn't really there. It cost time and effort to learn, and it was a long way back if you started from a lift, a long hike both ways otherwise.
I got the urge to ski fresh snow about 15 to 20 years after I started skiing, when I finally got to ski out west, but only due to being a bit of a odd-ball that only wanted to find steeper longer faster lines than were available on the trail map, and I had to learn how to ski deep snow anyway because it was always snowing at the resort I was at (if you stepped off your skis on one of the "groomed runs" you would be up to your armpits in snow. It wasn't so I could brag about being able to ski powder. It wasn't even to experience the floaty flying feeling of powder, not not for me back then; I only cared about speed-thrills.
NOW, judging from ski forum posts that I read, it seems that you're not a real skier unless your skiing beyond the lift serviced terrain. You get credit for being RAD. It's in style! Young skiers see videos of free-style comp skiers and folks skiing the steep and deep (an oxy-moron if ever there was one), and want to be like them.
AND it won't take you three days of falling to learn how, due to wide skis that ski almost as if you are on a groomer. Add rocker, and as a side effect, the skis are more forgiving so you don't even need to be good at groomer skiing to ski the untouched back side.
Maybe that sounds elitist in a backlash sort of way, but it's just what I have observed. I have equal respect for all skiers regardless of their preferred play land.
Okay ... so, your question was, why can't they ski <X> on skinny skis? The implication being that you know that these people on fat skis can't ski powder on skinny skis. I'm not sure how you know that. But assuming that's true, where are you going with that question?
I'm for fat skis as they provide me with more fun factor and they are helping keep more people involved in skiing (sustaining the industry). Now I'd be fine if the only skiing I did was hike-to, but I'll be honest. I like skiing 15 - 25 K of vertical in a few hours with lift service.
To everyone who dislikes their 110+ fats now - before you sell them would you try 10mm lift?
It might just be easier on your knees.
(To the inevitable commenters - I am fully aware that what I suggest is more applicable to big mountain skis than powder designs, and the OP is more concerned with deflection than knee sensations. The thread title said fats and that is inclusive.)
It might just be easier on your knees.
(To the inevitable commenters - I am fully aware that what I suggest is more applicable to big mountain skis than powder designs, and the OP is more concerned with deflection than knee sensations. The thread title said fats and that is inclusive.)
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A wider boot sole, lugs and bindings would also help optimize the connection to the snow on fat skis.
Snowboarders! The local boarders really come out on a powder day, in the mountains. I have been riding the lift up and have seen a group of 5 or 6 obliterate the fresh powder on a run. They do it because the spread out across the run and keep throwing them sideways to turn, or just go down the run with the board at an angle. Done and done. They don't have as much fun as a skier on the groomed, especially if it is firm or hard so they make the effort to get out there on a powder day.
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