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nay

dirt heel pusher
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Colorado
But all things are not equal. I have been on the poma at Copper in 75mph winds. You can't do that on a chairlift.

^^^^

Other than the short distance and lower cost, both the t-bar and poma at Copper are arguably surface lifts because of how much constant cross wind they take at mountaintop level out of the northwest.

Can't run high capacity (chairs per seat) detachables as safely in high wind if a lot of the lift length is exposed. This is a huge weakness of Winter Park as almost all of its lift capacity high up is detachable and major lifts like Pano are exposed for so much of the ride it can't take much wind, or you need to ride a detachable (say Pano) to get to a fixed (say Eagle Wind), so on windy storm days the whole upper mountain tends to be closed. Doesn't matter all that much if your mountain doesn't have a backside or high bowl ridgeline. Matters a ton if it does.

I don't think high chairs are colder than surface lifts either way. It's a lot easier to move your lower legs on a chair than a surface and far easier to protect fingers and face. Plus that whiskey flask thingy.
 

crgildart

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But all things are not equal. I have been on the poma at Copper in 75mph winds. You can't do that on a chairlift.
SURFACE lift is a poma rope tow or t-bar, a lift that pulls you along the surface, not above it. Chair lift is not on the surface, not my definition of "surface lift".. We are saying the same thing but using a different definition of surface lift??
 

nay

dirt heel pusher
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Celebrity at Copper is a platter surface lift. Neither a t-bar nor a rope. My daughter explains....

image.jpeg
 
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markojp

mtn rep for the gear on my feet
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SURFACE lift is a poma rope tow or t-bar, a lift that pulls you along the surface, not above it. Chair lift is not on the surface, not my definition of "surface lift".. We are saying the same thing but using a different definition of surface lift??

You seem unusually invested in this topic. What's up?
 

Jeff N

I'm an anachronism
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Gnarnia
If I wanted to zip up the hill quicker and have shorter, faster moving lines I'd be lobbying to bring back rope tows.

I think Pomas run at maximum rope speed take the win. A few back in the day ran at 20+ MPH. Much easier to hit terminal velocity on a poma vs trying to keep a rope tow rope from slipping and eating your gloves and parka...
 

Jeff N

I'm an anachronism
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Lifts I will be sad to see go:

Segundo at Sunlight.

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Towers were first installed at Aspen as the original chair 3 (now Ajax Express two lifts later). Installed at Sunlight in 1973. At Aspen the chairlift was a single. Riblet came in and re-engineered the lift to be a double, installing classic Riblet double carriers and top and bottom terminals. Lift is a vault drive from the top terminal. If you say this lift is a 1955 lift it is the oldest operating chairlift in Colorado. If you date it to 1973, it is still one of the oldest. It is a testament to quality that most of the oldest lift still spinning in Colorado are Riblets (Monarch's 1960's Halls got new drive terminals the past few years).

Chapman Hill
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Still operates with two rope tows. One of them was first installed at Camp Hale on the "B Slope."

Ski Hesperus

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Riblet double of 1960's ish vintage. Transplanted from Mt Bachelor. Barely hanging on, both as a ski area and a lift- there were metallurgical concerns back in the 1980's. During the week, the ski area only opens at 4:00 for night skiing. Powder skiing under the lights (or lack of them) is epic.

Sipapu's Poma

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Throwback in so many ways. Very old school detachable poma. Doesn't even have an electrical tap- they run a gas generator to provide power to the lift.

Wolf Creek Kelly Boyce Poma
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Unfortunately has not operated since the 2012-2013 season. They used to spin the lift on Peak days to help with capacity with the old Treasure triple that runs parallel. However, since treasure was replaced with a HSQ (and the old lift reinstalled as Elma) they have not spun the Poma.

The Poma is one of the wildest rides I've ever had on a surface lift. It runs up two faces that run up to about 40*- one is pictured above, the other is just about the bottom terminal. Transitioning onto and off of the steep pitches tends to pull you off your skis- helped by the worn out springs in the carriers. To make things more interesting, because the Poma operates only occasionally and on pitches too steep to groom, you are commonly pulled up through mogul fields. If you see this lift spinning, ride it.

Merging some conversations, given that Wolf doesn't seem interested in operating the lift in its current installation any more, I would love for Wolf to refurbish this lift and install it either as the Meadows lift (see Ruining Wolf Creek thread) or running from the saddle on knife ridge up to Horseshoe bowl (replacing cat service there). Doesn't seem like there is any thoughts to doing so.
 

crgildart

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The Bull City
You seem unusually invested in this topic. What's up?
I don't think I successfully communicated my point due to different definitions of "surface lift". I was thinking surface lifts are better than both types of chairlifts in very cold and/or very windy conditions. But, I think I was using an incorrect (or different) definition of "surface lift". If your skis are touching the snow surface during uphill transport I considered that a "surface lift" as opposed to a chair lift or gondola or tram which are off the snow during uphill transport.

Back on topic, will always prefer fixed grip to detachable as long as the longer ones have footrests. I like a 10-15 minute break between longer vert runs..
 

Dave Petersen

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I like C Chair and 6 Chair at Breckenridge. Rarely have I ever had to wait at all especially on C Chair, plus I like riding alone.

IMG_2613.JPG

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C Chair

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6 Chair

And for a peaceful, relatively steep, scenic ride through the trees I like E Chair.
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Posaune

sliding
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Mar 26, 2016
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Bellingham, WA
Mount Baker, all fixed grip chairs. I noticed that I didn't take any pics on weekends when there would be more people on the lifts, though the last one was taken on a Friday because they don't run chair 1 on Monday through Thursday. Being retired is nice.
Top of Chair 5, and C8 in the distance.
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Chair 5 is pretty steep. The run is called "Gabl's" (gobbles)
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The top of Chair 8, Shuksan Arm behind
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Chair 1 with the North Cascades in the distance. The U.S. - Canada border runs right between two of the peaks in the center of the photo (American Border Peak, and Canadian Border Peak). I've not seen an "Extreme Danger Zone" sign anywhere else I've skied. You can duck the rope, but watch where you go after you do.
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