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François Pugh

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As above why not just pick up something cheap and bombproof for the urban commute like a new MAZDA 3?

Or consider the Mazda CX3.

I've had a Mazda 3 Sport (the hatchback) for about a year and a half. It's not the ideal snow vehicle. I've got Hakapallita R2s on it in the winter and thus equipped it gets me through snow, but ground clearance isn't great, so I've had to plow snow with the front air dam and bumper, and that air dam isn't a plow blade; my aunt who has the same car managed to damage that air dam breaking through the frozen snowbank left by the plow. I've had to adjust my driving style, no more flooring it and plow through everything in its path like I used to do with my older more solid cars.

That being said, the Mazda 3 has convinced me that they probably did a good job on their CX 3. I've managed to get 50 US mpg on several highway trips at the speed limit and have averaged 36 US mpg (including some driving at double the speed limit :eek:) over the life of the car (35,000 miles so far) in a mix of city/highway driving. No problems so far.
 
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coskigirl

coskigirl

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What about Honda Element or Subaru Crosstrek?

With apologies to those that like them, those 2 vehicles are 2 that I just couldn’t stomach owning because I hate the way they look. If I’m giving up my 4Runner it will not be for a vehicle I hate.
 

Monique

bounceswoosh
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With apologies to those that like them, those 2 vehicles are 2 that I just couldn’t stomach owning because I hate the way they look. If I’m giving up my 4Runner it will not be for a vehicle I hate.

Totally understood. Some people have a purely practical relationship to vehicles. I've always had an emotional relationship with mine.
 

Magoo

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When my Xterra had seen it's best days I was having a hard time finding something to do the things you ask. MPG was big because i was tired of getting 16 avg on a good tank. Went with the Mazda CX-5 and couldn't be happier. So fun to drive and second to none on snow performance.
 
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coskigirl

coskigirl

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When my Xterra had seen it's best days I was having a hard time finding something to do the things you ask. MPG was big because i was tired of getting 16 avg on a good tank. Went with the Mazda CX-5 and couldn't be happier. So fun to drive and second to none on snow performance.

Hey @Magoo I’m headed your direction on Thursday for a gala on Friday night. Looking forward to exploring Boise again. I went back 12 years ago for a wedding but I haven’t really explored since I left in ‘91.
 

Magoo

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@coskigirl Be prepared to say WOW lots. I moved here 12 years ago from Bend and when I go back there that is all I can say. Coming into downtown now is a whole new experience here. I live in Meridian actually and i think it is 100k now.
 
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coskigirl

coskigirl

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I’m staying in Meridian actually. It should be fun. The gala will be a trip. My dad is coming in as well and he was the head coach of the racing team for 10 years. Meeting up with my childhood babysitter and another family we were close with as well.
 

Crank

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I have been driving highlanders since 2003 through many snow storms all over the northeast U.S and up into Canada at least 6 times and never had a problem with the way it handled in snow. Super nice highway ride too. Not the best gas mileage and not the worst.
 

Ken_R

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Two and a half years ago I bought my dream vehicle when I bought my beloved 4Runner. It’s still a fantastic vehicle and i wouldn’t be looking at all if it weren’t for 4 years of commuting in the near future. Hopefully I will start law school at DU in August 2018 (while working full time in Boulder. This will create a 70+ mile commute for me 3-5 days per week 9 months of the year. As such, I’m starting to consider an alternat vehicle (withlikely plans to purchase another 4Runner after graduation).

So, I’m looking for fuel economy, good in snow (duh!), spacious enough to carry camping and mountain biking gear at the same time but a roof box would be an option, under $25k. Used likely preferred, mileage depends on vehicle reputation. I’ve looked at the likely suspects of Subaru Outback, Toyota Highlander hybrid, VW alltrac. Not discounting any of those but looking for other recs.

I really like my wife's Forester. I live in Littleton and drive to Boulder almost every week and obviously to the mountains. It consistently gets about 30 MPG per tank. With snow tires it gets about the same. We got the 2.5i Touring but the base model is a fantastic value since it has the same drivetrain.
 

Tom K.

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I'm with @Philpug on this one. The Alltrack or Sportwagon is by far the best sub-$25k snow car currently available.

But he's off the mark on the Highlander in snow comment. They, and their platform-mate Sienna, are absolute tigers in snow.
 

trailtrimmer

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I was at a Subaru Ride & Drive and on the wet skid pad, it would not turn, it just went straight ..it was laughable. I will say that was a few years ago and two generations of models but since you said you were looking used, is why I brought it up.

The stock bridgestones that used to come on Subaru's were horrible in the rain and downright dangerous in the snow. My old FWD Vibe with snow tires would accelerate, stop and turn three fold better than our brand new Subaru with 4000 miles on the OEM tires. I didn't believe my wife and how bad it was since she came from her jeep with some nice M+S rated coopers, then I nearly rear ended someone when I used it one winter morning. She had snows on it by the end of the week. :) Wet traction is also much better after shelling the stock tires for summer use as well.

Two cars is never cheaper unless they are both in the sweet spot of age and reliability vs. cost of payments and repairs. Grabbing a RAV4 of the same year would likely net you a six or seven MPG average improvement. They were $8k - $10k cheaper when new so I'm sure the sale of the 4Runner would put you further ahead in the monthly payment realm as well.
 

JeffB

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Keep the 4Runner. As you mentioned, it was your dream car and you finally got one. I know it's not yet paid for and there are some better MPG options out there, but so what? The 4Runner does everything you need it to do and you love it. Why change for a little bit less debt and a little bit less car and a little bit less happiness?

And that last point, happiness, is the main reason why I say keep it. You're about to have a massive life change, going back to school, while trying to work and maintain all your family and friend relationships. And trust me, the vast majority of law students suck, so it ain't gonna be cake and ice cream on campus each day. If you then add to all those upcoming changes and stresses getting rid of the vehicle you desired, worked for, and earned with your own gumption, then dammit, what's the point?

Keep the car. It makes you smile, and you're going to need that more than +5 mpg and a little less debt. You can be responsible in some other area of your life, but each of us needs a little bit more indefensible whimsy in our lives - it's good for the soul.
 

Wilhelmson

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Anything with all wheel drive. An important consideration is the clearance of the chassis over the ground. A lot of new cars have less than a foot of clearance so no matter how good your AWD and tires are if you're trying to switch lanes in frozen chop or are on an unplowed road it can be hairy. It's also nice to get out of your driveway or garage without worrying about pulling off the front of your car.

The Imprezza Sport has a hatchback which holds decent gear and if you only have one passenger you can fold the rear seats down for lots of space. We've bought 2 new get a manual shift and good tires.
 
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coskigirl

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Keep the 4Runner. As you mentioned, it was your dream car and you finally got one. I know it's not yet paid for and there are some better MPG options out there, but so what? The 4Runner does everything you need it to do and you love it. Why change for a little bit less debt and a little bit less car and a little bit less happiness?

And that last point, happiness, is the main reason why I say keep it. You're about to have a massive life change, going back to school, while trying to work and maintain all your family and friend relationships. And trust me, the vast majority of law students suck, so it ain't gonna be cake and ice cream on campus each day. If you then add to all those upcoming changes and stresses getting rid of the vehicle you desired, worked for, and earned with your own gumption, then dammit, what's the point?

Keep the car. It makes you smile, and you're going to need that more than +5 mpg and a little less debt. You can be responsible in some other area of your life, but each of us needs a little bit more indefensible whimsy in our lives - it's good for the soul.

This is definitely part of the equation. That being said, I'd already planned upon graduation and bar passage (which will then give me a significant salary jump) I'll do 2 things. First, buy a bigger home. A 1 bedroom condo is a tight squeeze. Second, buy a new(er) 4runner. The one I have is a 2010 so by the time I graduate it will be 12 years old so even if I keep it there will be a change of vehicle after graduation.

While a 4runner is a great car, at about 107k miles I can expect to start needing more major maintenance. Going to a newer vehicle, possibly a CPO, may save me some headache of having to do major repairs on a vehicle when I have even less time than I do now to manage that.
 

jzmtl

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Have you done the math on how much it would cost you to switch cars vs the extra gas you'll spend just driving the 4runner? I don't know how much you are paying for 4runner, but spending $25k to save gas doesn't seem reasonable at glance.

If you do switch I guess there are two ways you can go with this, since you plan to get a new 4runner anyway after graduation, you could just get rid of it now and get something else you enjoy. I can relate to how much you don't want to get rid of it, the day I sold my Wrangler I literally sat alone for hours feeling lost, but you will find something else you like.

If you can manage two cars with your parking rules and such, forget good in snow, you already have one. Find a small light car with manual, they are fun to toss around and probably great on gas, and drive them on no-snow days, drive your 4runner when weather is bad.
 

Muleski

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I'd keep it. You know it. You know what it's had for maintenance. You know how it performs in a variety of conditions. You love it. It serves all of your needs.

Downsides? It uses more gas than you'd ideally like. You'll be spending more on gas than you might otherwise. Maybe it's a touch bigger than you'd like for parking. BTW, where is the DU's law school? If it's near the main campus, rather than being downtown, parking should not be too bad.

Sure, you MAY have some major unforeseen repairs over the time that you're in school. Then again, with a 4Runner, you may not. You can probably spendsome time with the people who have worked on it, and come up with a reasonable list of expectations over the next four years. I would not get too hung up on that. The CPO vehicle will come with a warranty, but it doesn't mean that it will have fewer issues. So, you'd be covered financially, but who knows about the aggravation of dealing with it.

Personally, I would very comforatble with a a vehicle like the 4Runner, that you know, with that mileage. The flip side of that is that where you live, people overpay for a number of vehicles. It's the hotbed for Tacomas, 4Runners, and Outbacks. So should you decide to sell, sell it privately, and you will do well on it.

If you're comfortable with a continuing car payment, I would seriously look at a VW product. An Alltrack is where I would start. My brother in law has just bought one, and he got a great deal on it. Seems like VW dealers are trying to move cars, and the car is nice. Might check off most of your boxes.

You're never going to find common ground on Subies here. My family has owned a lot of them, and we still have four among various cousins, and the whole group. One will be sold in the next few weeks. Has become very needy. One is close. A lot of bills lately at about 125K. Excessive, IMO. Our daughter has a 2008 Outback XT that has been a great driver. But it's had some big bills. 115K miles, and on the verge of selling it. The newest one, a 2014 3.6 has failed to impress the owner, who traded in a 2008 Outback 3.0R to buy it. I think they are a bit of a crapshoot as the miles build up, and in Denver/Boulder......they "cost."

Gas. Now granted, our daughter has a heavy foot. So when she's on the highway, the fuel rail is wide open on her Outback XT. Around town. we get better gas mileage in a Land Cruiser, using 87 octane fuel than she gets in her XT, using 91, or preferably 93 octane.

I'd keep the familiar and well loved 4Runner.
 
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Wilhelmson

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Although at 107,000 miles you can still get decent trade or private sale value. You'll probably be ahead keeping the yota for another 100,000 but when the exhaust goes and then the wheel bearing then the cv joint it tends to get tiresome.

Agree that around 120,000 miles the subies succumb to road salt slow death syndrome, as did my F250. These days I'm selling at 10 years/100,000. I figure that's frugal enough and the break even with low interest rates isn't more than 10% either way, plus I get a new car and no repair headaches. Your mileage may vary (always wanted to say that).
 

Muleski

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@Wilhelmson, just curious, are you in the Northeast?

We live north of Boston. As I type this, I'm looking down at the ocean...about 50 feet away. We ski in Maine. We're in about as lousy a car/truck environment as there is. Sucks.

We have two adult "kids", both live as we say "out West". They have helped me source my last two cars out there, used. @coskigirl lives in a part of the country where despite the snow, cars just last. Our son's 2002, 250K mile Tacoma would "look new" back here. Daughter's 2008 Outback XT does look new. Literally zero surface rust underneath it.

Denver/Boulder is also infamous for being the hottest market for the three vehicles that I had mentioned before. Tacomas, 4Runners, and most Subies. Our daughter could sell the XT for more than she paid for it four years ago, no questions asked. Our son recently turned down more than he paid for the Tacoma, 160K miles ago. I think it's just nuts. How long this lasts, who knows?

But right now that 4Runner, as odd as it sounds might be appreciating. Our son has a number of friends with various Tacomas and 4Runners, and they are a rare vehicle that is at the least holding value.....if they are in a part of the country where rust doesn't play into to.

Daughter's car replaced a 2002 H6 VDC Subie that had about 120K miles on it, and looked almost new. Car was bought CPO in Boston. When she got to Denver, she learned that the rear crossmember was rotting from the inside out, and that there was a lot of rot, hidden under the factory undercoating, where the cross member met the body. Was going to cost a lot to cut, weld, and "maybe" fix. So she sold it to a Subie shop, who did the work, and resold it. For a big price tag. The market there is different.

So my hunch is that @coskigirl's 4Runner is in good shape, and certainly has no rust related issues. Our son just had his first exhaust repair....OK, a whole new exhaust built. 15 years, 250K....not bad.

Now we could compare my daughter's XT issues to my 2005 Legacy GT wagon and you would swear that they were entirely different cars! When it comes to cars, living by the ocean sucks. By the ocean in New England, worse!

Keepthe4Runner!
 
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coskigirl

coskigirl

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Unfortunately, manual is not an option. My left knee hates the clutch motion when it's acting up and in the potential horrible traffic between here and DU meaning stop and go would not be pretty. My last manual vehicle brought me to tears a few times because of this issue.

All of your points are good ones. It's just something I'm going to have to grapple with. Other factors include some amenities that I don't have in an older vehicle that would be nice. Especially with the intense schedule. I should probably start by just driving some of the options then check my gut to decide if I'll regret losing my 4runner for a few years.
 

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