Getting child to use a narrower stance

[karlo]

Any ideas on getting a child to use a narrower stance?

This past weekend, I had a "7-3/4" year old boy who I could not get to a narrower stance. I tried bunny hops in a traverse; he kept doing it with a wide stance, basically splayed out. I had him try bunny hops on flat, both wide stanced and normal standing position. He agreed that hopping in the normal standing position felt better, yet he reverted to the very wide stance when skiing. I had him hold a stuffed animal between his knees while skiing. He held it all the way down on the third try, in a narrower stance. But, he reverted once the animal was taken away.

 

[Josh Matta]

outside ski to outside ski......

A wide stance in any aged skier is caused by lack of outside ski balance. Artificially narrowing a stance like you did can "backdoor" your way into outside ski balance....but never beats true outside ski balance. By having them stand on just the outside ski you take away the in-rigger of the inside ski.

Make sure they are not trying to "push" on the outside ski as this quite often leads to a wide stance as well.

 

[socalgal]

So to practice this, what would be some good drills (that are fun)? I'm not an instructor, just a parent. This past week I modeled balancing on the outside leg while at different points of our turns. The kids copied as well as they could.

 

[Josh Matta]

I make up something new for basically every kid......sometimes its stretch.

Sometime just the act of outside ski skiing is enough and there is no need to turn it to game. Once a skier can do those on easy terrain, keep doing it. Its one of the quickest way to defeat outside leg bracing.

 

[RuleMiHa]

Any ideas on getting a child to use a narrower stance?

This past weekend, I had a "7-3/4" year old boy who I could not get to a narrower stance. I tried bunny hops in a traverse; he kept doing it with a wide stance, basically splayed out. I had him try bunny hops on flat, both wide stanced and normal standing position. He agreed that hopping in the normal standing position felt better, yet he reverted to the very wide stance when skiing. I had him hold a stuffed animal between his knees while skiing. He held it all the way down on the third try, in a narrower stance. But, he reverted once the animal was taken away.

The more unstable I feel, the wider my stance is. Boots too big, unbuckled boots, and ear infections make things worse. Improving my balance, practicing standing on one ski, and better fitting boots made it better.

 

[mister moose]

I think there is also a developmental issue here. Younger kids haven't developed single foot musculature and balance yet. The age varies of course, but I think expecting all young kids to be able to do it is a mistake. Let it come. They make tricycles for a reason.

Keep trying, keep gentle drilling, but don't over expect. I don't know what age is the upper limit, but 7 3/4 sure sounds in youngish range (in athletic balance and strength) to me.

It's not a narrower stance. It's the ability to move the center of mass (nearly) over the outside foot and keep it there while in motion.

Days on skis will matter also.

 

[Josh Matta]

I have taught a student as young as 3 to do this. The mom actively post here if she want to chime in. An her daughter isnt the only one. Any 7 year old should be able to easily do this. If they are physically unable to trying will get them to eventually be physically able to.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Can he sidestep up the hill well? Maybe he can't balance on his outside ski. Maybe he can't feel his edges until his skis are that far apart. Kids aren't stupid, they will take the path of least resistance.

 

[T-Square]

Have you watched the kid walk in normal shoes? I had an autistic kid with a similar issue. Then I saw him walk in normal shoes and he walked with a wide stance. I was fighting a built in movement pattern. So I worked on other things with him that he could do.

Remember that kids fine motor skills develop from top down, inside out. Also, there is a wide variation in development rates between kids. Thus the fine motor skills to comfortably ski with his feet closer together may be lacking at this time in his development. Don’t sweat it and move on to other things. Build on what he can do now. As his skills develop and improve the other things will fall in line. Make sure he’s having fun, the learning will spring from that.

 

[karlo]

Can he sidestep up the hill well? Maybe he can't balance on his outside ski. Maybe he can't feel his edges until his skis are that far apart.

No. Kept taking to big a step side ways. And, pushing off his right leg, the downhill leg, hurt his knee. Yet, jumping off the last step of a bus, onto the road, he landed in an athletic stance, and it didn't hurt.

Have you watched the kid walk in normal shoes?

In his ski boots, seems to walk fine.

Yes, I should have moved into other things. It was a class of two others. I like Josh's thought to work on skiing on the outside ski. Maybe have them pick up and lower the inside heel while doing that; Easier to maintain balance. If anyone has other thoughts on what else to have worked on, please share.

 

[jack97]

I think there is also a developmental issue here. Younger kids haven't developed single foot musculature and balance yet. The age varies of course, but I think expecting all young kids to be able to do it is a mistake. Let it come. They make tricycles for a reason.

Keep trying, keep gentle drilling, but don't over expect. I don't know what age is the upper limit, but 7 3/4 sure sounds in youngish range (in athletic balance and strength) to me.

It's not a narrower stance. It's the ability to move the center of mass (nearly) over the outside foot and keep it there while in motion.

Days on skis will matter also.

I have taught a student as young as 3 to do this. The mom actively post here if she want to chime in. An her daughter isnt the only one. Any 7 year old should be able to easily do this. If they are physically unable to trying will get them to eventually be physically able to.

Interesting, I was told by most instructors that 7 to 8 is when most kids have the musculature to get out of the snowplow and start going parallel. Even at the age you still see a noticeable stem even in the race and ski schools.

 

[Josh Matta]

Yeah there are many kids under 7 who can ski with out bracing on the outside ski or wedging. But if a coach or parent thinks that a snowplow is all that is possible that is all the kid will ever do

 

[Jilly]

No. Kept taking to big a step side ways. And, pushing off his right leg, the downhill leg, hurt his knee. Yet, jumping off the last step of a bus, onto the road, he landed in an athletic stance, and it didn't hurt.



In his ski boots, seems to walk fine.

Yes, I should have moved into other things. It was a class of two others. I like Josh's thought to work on skiing on the outside ski. Maybe have them pick up and lower the inside heel while doing that; Easier to maintain balance. If anyone has other thoughts on what else to have worked on, please share.

So why not use some jumping on a shallow pitch. Straight running with bunny hops.

One ski - modified javelin turn....lifted ski is a transformer arm with a machine gun to get the snow snakes....make it fun!!

 

[razie]

needs better balance while gliding. Ski on one ski all day. Tiring for you - fun for him/her.

 

[ella_g]

A little late to the game but Josh taught my youngest kid to balance on her outside ski and from the getgo she was skiing with a pretty narrow stance. She spent a lot of time following him and he’d exaggerate balancing on the outside ski (at least that’s what it looked like to me). They also stayed on easy terrain for a long time. When she got on anything steep her stance would widen.. So she was kind of forbidden from anything “fun” for a long time .... surprisingly she still loves skiing Wait @Josh Matta it was us you were talking about right? I actually think I have some great videos of you teaching her early on

 

[Josh Matta]

yeah I mean I have this video when she Gwen was 3. about 11 days in.


I also do not want to take anything away from Gwen, she was willing and active in her own skiing from basically the days on the carpet and also her parents who never pushed and put up with my chocolate milk and muffin rewards

and one thing to coaches out there, As @ella_g says we stayed on easy terrain for a long time. Think the easiest chairlift for about week, and meadows for literally almost a year. Stowe does nt really have ample easy terrain so it really limits where you should go with a student who you are trying to teach offensive slow like fast skiing with out power wedging to. I think the single worse thing a parent or coach do is to pull a student off the easiest terrain while they still show defensive movements. If I have a student who I know goal whether spoken or unspoken is "Expert" skiing, then staying easy terrain tough task is the way to go. Tough terrain just skiing is never the way to go, if the tough terrain is introducing negative movements pattern it really just isnt worth it.

By the time Gwen was 4 she basically went from light blue level skier to skiing the top of Goat and Starr with out stopping and parallel all the time in a matter of days. On blue terrain she skis with less rotary push off than many PSIA L3. The thing is so many parents want their kids to be able to ski with them on the terrain they ski, so they drag them there, what they do not know is they really are delaying the process. Be patient, let the kids skills develop, its not about where you want to ski, it about where your kid should be skiing.

I would love to see the videos, but I would also love to see her racing Ella.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

The thing is so many parents want their kids to be able to ski with them on the terrain they ski, so they drag them there, what they do not know is they really are delaying the process. Be patient, let the kids skills develop, its not about where you want to ski, it about where your kid should be skiing..

They ski on terrain that is too hard, and they also ski too damn fast!

 

[tball]

Sometimes just the act of outside ski skiing is enough and there is no need to turn it to game. Once a skier can do those on easy terrain, keep doing it. Its one of the quickest way to defeat outside leg bracing.

Timely. This is our son's wide stance and daughter doing similar ahead in the pink, both five yrs at the time.


Our seasonal lesson program doesn't start until March. In the meantime, should try having them follow me through that little slalom course and pick up my inside ski making wider slower turns? Any other suggestions on emphasising outside ski skiing?

When do you know a kiddo is ready for more difficult terrain, even a steeper green run? Thanks!

 

[Josh Matta]

Well tball that little slalom course is set too straight to accomplish anything. You need to introduce traversing across the hill just on the downhill skis. You kids have couple things going and you going have to change several at once. If you are able make nice round track on the easiest terrain there and have them follow your track not you that will start to get them narrower . Go basically as slow as you can with out pivoting. Tell them to follow your track as fast as they can with cutting it off.

 

[tball]

Thanks so much Josh! I don't think they've followed anyone skiing much if at all, including in lessons. More herding than demonstrating, so that obvious change to our routine should help. Maybe I'll bring some of our little cones and make the salmon course wider too. Thanks again.