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dbostedo

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One question I don't think I've seen asked is, should we still use storage wax over the summer with Phantom?

I think that depends on what storage wax is doing for you.

If it's keeping the wax currently in your bases from degrading, and you're now using phantom instead, you probably don't need storage wax.

If you're using it to protect your edges, you may still want to do that.
 
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Marker

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You really see those things being the same as pitching a new cure all wonder drug???

I wax every 2-3 ski days because I like that silky smooth feeling of waxed skis. My wife thinks I'm nuts, but enjoys her skis! Wax is a tool that makes my skiing more enjoyable just like shaped skis, p-tex, plastic ski boots, etc. These are all due to advances in material science, just like I hope Phantom is. Not a wonder drug.
 

Marker

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Since longevity is the key attraction, it's hard to evaluate at introduction until independent gear heads like we have on PugSki have extended time to test. If those tests are successful, I suspect many of us will be lined up for Phantom application at the DPS demo at the Gathering.

Since they admit to only testing over the last year, durability will be interesting to monitor. Can you reapply after, say, two years if the lubricity should wear off or will the pores of the p-tex base be too clogged up to adsorb more? Doesn't appear to be a material you can clean out with base cleaner.
 

dbostedo

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Since they admit to only testing over the last year, durability will be interesting to monitor. Can you reapply after, say, two years if the lubricity should wear off or will the pores of the p-tex base be too clogged up to adsorb more? Doesn't appear to be a material you can clean out with base cleaner.
Well it's also not a material that will clog pores. Given that they say wax will still behave as usual, it isn't doing anything to the physical structure that would change any pores.

Of course that doesn't answer the question of what replication would do. If it needed to be reapplied, that would imply that there was another chemical change to the base material. (In addition to the initial one caused by the application of Phantom. And as opposed to the phantom substance wearing away.)
 

SallyCat

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Plus -- what the hell am I supposed to do when I need a break from the stresses of life if I can't retreat to the gear shed, crack open a beer and wax skis for the gajillionth time? Tune bikes in winter?

Exactly.
This is a quality of life issue.
It's a beer and podcasts issue.
I've said this elsewhere; sorry to those for whom it's a repeat, but it's my manifesto of resistance to soul-less efficiency:

Waxing provides a sense of accomplishment. This is very unlike, say, teaching high school, which is more like intellectual farming: the season is long, growth is slow, and the results uncertain. And sometimes the crop is a bit of an adolescent ingrate. A freshly waxed ski is an objective success; an immediately observable accomplishment. I won't cede that feeling to the engineers!
 

ScottB

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Waxing provides a sense of accomplishment. ..... A freshly waxed ski is an objective success; an immediately observable accomplishment. I won't cede that feeling to the engineers!

Agreed,

You can still wax your skis after treating them with Phamtom. I plan to still use wax, but I can be as lazy or casual about doing it as I want, and my skis will still have very good (not great as with a fresh wax job) glide and I won't be cursing in sloppy spring conditions when my "Butter" wears off after half the day.
 

fatbob

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So is this product actually Juice under another name? TGR seems to indicate it is and Juice disappearing from the market is a heck of a coincidence. Full disclosure?
 

mogsie

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It is just normal that people here be more sceptical than people out there... We don't represent the normal dude that go skiing 5-6 times a year and have no interest or curiosity about his equipment...
Plus, can we still be considerated normal people if we like the act of waxing our skis ( and even the smell)? :Dogwink:rolleyes: 3 differents colors of wax that I use often...
 
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Tricia

Tricia

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So you knock a nice gouge into your ski that now requires a good size p-tex repair. You now have an untreated section of your ski base. Speed killer. What is the shelf life of this product? Is it a two part mixture? Is it a single solution? Am I out another 100 every time I repair a base with P-Tex? Can I possess and store the stuff to use for repair coverage?

Somewhere in this thread it said that this treatment makes the base harder. Wouldn't that then alter the flex pattern of the ski? Seems to me it would.

Just wondering!

Hardness is a different property than stiffness.

It looks like some of these questions are being answered in the updates on the kickstarter page.
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ase-glide-treatment-for-skis-an/posts/2032330
 

richddt

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Hum... Phantom comes into plays at 2-3 mph... I wonder how it would perform when I go into bumps or go slower in trails that are more demanding to me?

They did an experiment at Ski magazine:
https://www.skimag.com/gear/dps-pha...il&utm_content=Story1&utm_campaign=110617_hed

And the thing I tought had the most sense is using the Phantom on skis that you use skins on... I could see myself using it on my skis that I use in trees and bumps (it harden the base) and spend more time waxing my carving machines... :)

So a non-wax for tree and bump skis, I guess it would be nice to ski Jay peak with.
 

Yo Momma

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I think I'll wait before investing into a rotor brush...
Yes you will save TONS of $$$ by not investing in a rotobrush. W/ a rotobrush your beer budget skyrockets! Do your 3-6 sets of skis, wife's/GF's 2-3 skis, kids skis, friends and relatives skis, B/C skis, Tele skis......How many beers is that! OMG :huh:...... I just can't afford that much beer not to mention the hangover! I'm tossing my rotobrush...... I'm getting too old for this IPA (I'm Pickled Again!) thing!:beercheer:
 

nay

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I just pledged.

The question of “what will I do while receding from life to wax skis and have a beer or 4?” is easily answered with:

“What will I do while receding from life to have a beer or 4?”

My plan is to have a beer or 4. I don’t need the work and I don’t bother with excuses for the beer.
 

cantunamunch

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Yes you will save TONS of $$$ by not investing in a rotobrush. W/ a rotobrush your beer budget skyrockets! Do your 3-6 sets of skis, wife's/GF's 2-3 skis, kids skis, friends and relatives skis, B/C skis, Tele skis......How many beers is that! OMG :huh:...... I just can't afford that much beer not to mention the hangover! I'm tossing my rotobrush...... I'm getting too old for this IPA (I'm Pickled Again!) thing!:beercheer:


:D Well put.

I've already saved on my wine budget by not buying a complete stainless cookware set. I simply cannot afford all the wine I would drink during cooking. Now if only I can find a Chinese restaurant that will put me on the yearly prepaid dinner plan...the time and work savings would be astronomical.
 

James

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Wow, just catching up on the earthquake.
I guess we've answered the "why kickstarter?" with "Why a bank or venture capital when people will throw money at you? They can pay the fee right from the "pledges".

I'm a chemist so I did a quick SciFinder literature search on the Utah professor. Nothing yet on the "patent-pending breakthrough". The chemical structure shown on the Kickstarter site is not even a registered structure with Chemical Abstracts, so may be a red herring.

They would do that just to hide the real thing till they have a patent and longer since one has to defend patents?

ng. Again, they need a 35K Kickstarter why?
-@Wade answered that one. They're up to 276k+ $. The only problem with people throwing that much money at them is they have to meet the demand. Since they're chemicals, I would think it's doable. They have a hard target now instead of "how much will we sell?"

Ok, I’ll chime in...

We are gonna ski maybe 20 days a year as long as we live in Florida, LOTS more when we move to Utah.

We are going to be on a 12 days on skis trip in December, 37 days from now but who is counting :yahoo:

So, on a 12 day on the snow trip I would need to wax for sure. I don’t know doodie (notice I did not say sh!t) about waxing skis, much less taking the stuff with me. I like to travel light, as in VERY light. So a lifetime wax seems like a good deal. I did the Kickstarter 2 Pack, so I got two packs for $160, $80 per pair. I doubt it will arrive before we leave, but if it does, I will apply it to both pair of skis.

In the big scheme of things, it amazes me at the things people will put up a fuss about, and then waste money on other stuff. Personally I squeeze the last oz. of toothpaste out of the tube, but I look at the cost benefit of every purchase I make no matter how large or small. I am really into preventative maintenance and I am not skerd of buying once and crying once. I likely would have to pay to have two pair of skis waxed.... Over the course of those skis, the $160 is a freaking bargain.

Let’s see, $160.... $25 more than a 1 day lift ticket at Deer Valley.... 4 bottles of wine.... 3 tanks of gas.... 1/3 of a night for a ski in/ski out lodging

I potentially could be saving money
I potentially could have wasted money
I won’t know the freaking difference anyway this year :philgoat:
Mrs. 53 will be able to tell the difference by day 2 :Teleb:

Time will tell.
Yeah 20 days/year is 200 days in 10 years. Skis don't last longer than that. I'd bet "lifetime" has a limit, just most won't reach it. If you ski 100days/year maybe you would. In 2, 3, 4 years? Of the people who do that, how many keep a ski 300+ days?

So you knock a nice gouge into your ski that now requires a good size p-tex repair. You now have an untreated section of your ski base. Speed killer
Actually, this could be another use of the product. Ptex patches as currently done are extruded polyethylene and don't adsorb wax. Not sure if it's zero actually, but it's much less. If Phantom works on that stuff than you're ahead of the game. People getting ptex repairs could get it coated.

They address p-tex repairs in the kickstarter info. Basically, you have to put new treatment on the repair site if you want the same properties. It would depend on how big a site if it is worth the money. They dont say how long the stuff is good for once the package is opened. I can forsee them selling small repair packages for cheap if this stuff catches on.
Yes, you'd want lipstick case size repair tubes.

@Primoz, have you heard anything about this?
 
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