• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Did I buy boots that are too low in flex (100)?

allgash

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Posts
43
Location
East Coast
Hi Everyone,

I bought new boots at the end of last season to replace a decade-old pair of racing boots. I knew nothing about boots before going to a very reputable bootfitter, who recommended the Atomic Hawx Prime 100 boots. They're super comfortable and I got them for a really good price, but after doing more research about boots over the summer, I'm starting to worry that maybe I bought boots whose flex is too low? It seems like most people here or on /r/skiing recommend much stiffer boots, like in the 120-130 range. I skiied them on groomer runs on the East at the end of the season and I really liked them, but I never got a chance to use them on any steep or exceptionally challenging terrain.

Stats about me:
- Advanced on-piste skiier, not a lot of off-piste experience but I'm hoping to learn a lot this season and really push myself
- 5'9", 140-145lbs
- I want a boot that can handle lots of different terrain, but isn't super uncomfortable

My bootfitter was able to get me into smaller boots than my old boots, and did some heat molding / custom liners.

Should I be concerned? I don't live closer to where I bought the boots, so I won't be visiting the shop until the season starts on the East Coast (6-8 weeks away at best). Worst case, is it possible to make boots stiffer? I have also read that using booster straps can help with boots who aren't stiff enough?

Thank you in advance for the help.
 

Blue Streak

I like snow.
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
3,266
Location
Edwards, Colorado
No big deal.
Add a couple of rivets to firm them up, if they are too soft.
It's not perfect, but it costs nothing, and it does make a difference.
 

neonorchid

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Posts
6,686
Location
Mid-Atlantic
At your weight, 100 should be fine.

There is no standard for Boot Flex numbers. It's more of a guage within a line. I would be more concerened with how progressive the flex is which should'nt be a problem with the Hawx.

I'm in your weight class, my last boot a Nordica Speedmachine 110 had a screw to change it to a 100 flex which is where I kept it set at. I actually think they were stiffer then the current Salomon X-max 120 (flex) boots, certinaly not softer and I love the X-max.
 

oldschoolskier

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Posts
4,229
Location
Ontario Canada
@allgash

Don’t let anyone foul you, you can always make stiff boots softer, but never a soft boot stiffer! Fit is always KEY! :nono:

I’m going to be a spoiler, likely they are going to be too soft (long term) as they are listed as an intermediate to advanced boot, read the description https://www.rei.com/product/107856/atomic-hawx-prime-100-ski-boots-mens-20162017

My advise is ski them, without knowing what ski, they might work, however if you upgrading to something more aggressive (advanced expert) they won’t be responsive enough and it will appear that your technique isn’t right.

Stiffness is a hotly debated subject, however, here is a simple guideline (thought there are exceptions, too many reasons to list)

90 and below BEGINNER or Park, softness equals forgiveness in technique.
100-110 intermediate or Park, again same reason forgiveness.
120-140 advanced and up. Responsiveness and energy transfer, usually better build.
130+ Equals Race.

Years ago I did a survey on Epic (some tongue in cheek humor in it) it was surprising on how many skied stiffer boots. More than I honest expected.

Good luck but go in with your eye open.
 

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
7,617
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
I did the same thing, only I weighed 165 lbs at the time. I wanted the same performance as my old race boots, but wanted comfort too. Ended up with Crossmax 100 flex. I ended up sorting out my race boot liners so the race boots are comfy, and much prefer them. However, if it's colder than -10 C/14 F, I take the Crossmax because they are warmer. I'm willing to put up with the performance difference in order not to worry so much about frost bitten toes, and I'm too cheap to buy yet another pair of boots until these ones are completely worn out. My next pair is going to cost a bundle.

I'm guessing boot fitters and other ski retailers have a typical scenario they go through when assessing a skier's needs:
-Skier: I'm an expert skier, been skiing for 25 years, like to ski above 50 mph and really enjoy making 2 to 3 g turns;
-boot fitter/ski retailer thinks: Guys always over-estimate their abilities. This guy's full of shite, probably an intermediate who's skied 5 times a year and never had his skis tipped more than 10 degrees off the snow. If he really was as good as he says he would know all about ski equipment, or be sponsored.

At your weight 100 flex is on the low side if you are looking for high performance (high g-force, high speed, instant and precise response), but not that big a deal. At least you won't be using race boots as a crutch to ski better. ;)
 

Dave Marshak

All Time World Champion
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
1,454
A few years ago Tommy Moe was skiing for a fundraiser at my home mountain. He was wearing the green Lange RX130, but he had one of the bolts out of it, so it was maybe a 110 or 115. I think I'm OK with my 110s.
Unless you're carving hard snow all the time, you're probably better off with softer boots, and you're always better off with more comfortable shoes.

dm
 

neonorchid

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Posts
6,686
Location
Mid-Atlantic
@allgash

Don’t let anyone foul you, you can always make stiff boots softer, but never a soft boot stiffer! Fit is always KEY! :nono:
That's not entirely true. Some aftermarket liners could up the stiffness. Case in point, Salomon X-max 120, same shell as X-max 130, liners are different and what accounts for the higher flex #.
 

Posaune

sliding
Skier
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Posts
1,914
Location
Bellingham, WA
My former boots were quite stiff, race-type affairs. They worked well and I skied them until they began to break.

I'm a big guy (6' 1", 220) and my new boots are quite a bit softer (110s?). I was worried that they were too soft until I added Intuition Power Wrap liners which stiffened them up a fair amount. Now I love my softer new boots and regret having spent so many years (more than a decade) in the really stiff ones.

I ski a lot of varied terrain: steeps, moguls, powder, crud, etc. and find that a little give in the boot is a lot better on my legs and soaks up some of the shock from the uneven surfaces that I find myself on. I've not noticed any loss of responsiveness on groomed surfaces.
 

Wade

Out on the slopes
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 19, 2015
Posts
929
Location
New York
I skied a few years at Gordy Peifer's Straightline Adventure camps at Alta Bird. The coaches at the camps were unbelievable skiers - skiing at very high speed on difficult, off piste terrain. They were technically excellent skiers, as well as being very good coaches.

A lot of them preached the virtues of softer boots, both for themselves and for the skiers they were coaching. They thought the majority of people they coached were in stiffer boots than they needed.

I'm sure plenty of people have a contrary opinion, and maybe softer boots aren't the right choice for everyone, but if you otherwise like the boots and they fit well, I'd be inclined to go out and ski them hard in the terrain you want to ski, and see how they do. If they're clearly too soft, you can address the issue then, but there's also a good chance they'll work well for you.
 

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
7,617
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
That's not entirely true. Some aftermarket liners could up the stiffness. Case in point, Salomon X-max 120, same shell as X-max 130, liners are different and what accounts for the higher flex #.
The exception proves the rule. Packing enough hard foam into a pair of custom foamed liners to bust the seams will stiffen a boot up a bit too.
 

Ken_R

Living the Dream
Skier
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
5,775
Location
Denver, CO
Hi Everyone,

I bought new boots at the end of last season to replace a decade-old pair of racing boots. I knew nothing about boots before going to a very reputable bootfitter, who recommended the Atomic Hawx Prime 100 boots. They're super comfortable and I got them for a really good price, but after doing more research about boots over the summer, I'm starting to worry that maybe I bought boots whose flex is too low? It seems like most people here or on /r/skiing recommend much stiffer boots, like in the 120-130 range. I skiied them on groomer runs on the East at the end of the season and I really liked them, but I never got a chance to use them on any steep or exceptionally challenging terrain.

Stats about me:
- Advanced on-piste skiier, not a lot of off-piste experience but I'm hoping to learn a lot this season and really push myself
- 5'9", 140-145lbs
- I want a boot that can handle lots of different terrain, but isn't super uncomfortable

My bootfitter was able to get me into smaller boots than my old boots, and did some heat molding / custom liners.

Should I be concerned? I don't live closer to where I bought the boots, so I won't be visiting the shop until the season starts on the East Coast (6-8 weeks away at best). Worst case, is it possible to make boots stiffer? I have also read that using booster straps can help with boots who aren't stiff enough?

Thank you in advance for the help.

No, Relax and enjoy them.

If they fit and feel nice then don't fret about it.
 
Thread Starter
TS
A

allgash

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Posts
43
Location
East Coast
Thank you very much to everyone for the responses! This is really helpful. It sounds like the best approach will be to not worry so much, ski them a lot, and if it turns out they aren't stuff enough 1. try to make them stiffer, or absolute worst case 2. get new boots.

I did the same thing, only I weighed 165 lbs at the time. I wanted the same performance as my old race boots, but wanted comfort too. Ended up with Crossmax 100 flex. I ended up sorting out my race boot liners so the race boots are comfy, and much prefer them. However, if it's colder than -10 C/14 F, I take the Crossmax because they are warmer. I'm willing to put up with the performance difference in order not to worry so much about frost bitten toes, and I'm too cheap to buy yet another pair of boots until these ones are completely worn out. My next pair is going to cost a bundle.

I'm guessing boot fitters and other ski retailers have a typical scenario they go through when assessing a skier's needs:
-Skier: I'm an expert skier, been skiing for 25 years, like to ski above 50 mph and really enjoy making 2 to 3 g turns;
-boot fitter/ski retailer thinks: Guys always over-estimate their abilities. This guy's full of shite, probably an intermediate who's skied 5 times a year and never had his skis tipped more than 10 degrees off the snow. If he really was as good as he says he would know all about ski equipment, or be sponsored.

At your weight 100 flex is on the low side if you are looking for high performance (high g-force, high speed, instant and precise response), but not that big a deal. At least you won't be using race boots as a crutch to ski better. ;)

I told my bootfitter what I described about myself above, advanced on-piste, not advanced off-piste but working on it. My girlfriend told me afterwards just what you're saying, that so many people think they're better than they are, that maybe I undersold myself? Generally speaking, I hate exaggerating my skill level at anything.

Ski the crap out of them and start looking for your next pair, no rule against having a boot quiver.;)

Yes! The only problem is that I went from not buying new equipment in over a decade to suddenly buying two new pairs of skis, and I'm about to get my first shell jacket, new snowpants, a new helmet ... this season is already costing me :eek::D

I skied a few years at Gordy Peifer's Straightline Adventure camps at Alta Bird. The coaches at the camps were unbelievable skiers - skiing at very high speed on difficult, off piste terrain. They were technically excellent skiers, as well as being very good coaches.

A lot of them preached the virtues of softer boots, both for themselves and for the skiers they were coaching. They thought the majority of people they coached were in stiffer boots than they needed.

I'm sure plenty of people have a contrary opinion, and maybe softer boots aren't the right choice for everyone, but if you otherwise like the boots and they fit well, I'd be inclined to go out and ski them hard in the terrain you want to ski, and see how they do. If they're clearly too soft, you can address the issue then, but there's also a good chance they'll work well for you.

That's interesting. I wonder why they preached the virtues of softer boots?
 

PTskier

Been goin' downhill for years....
Pass Pulled
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Posts
583
Location
Washington, the state
Stiffer boots have the advantage of quicker response times when you put an input from your legs to the skis--you don't have to wait for your legs to flex the boots then affect the skis. Also, when we're thrown off balance the stiffer boots provide a better base to lever against to get re-centered. I'm an easy going most-mountain skier and I went from a 130 flex to a 130-labeled flex that is stiffer, and I like what I have a lot. It's about personal preference.
 

David Chaus

Beyond Help
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
5,529
Location
Stanwood, WA
Yes! The only problem is that I went from not buying new equipment in over a decade to suddenly buying two new pairs of skis, and I'm about to get my first shell jacket, new snowpants, a new helmet ... this season is already costing me :eek::D

Ah, so you are one of us. Welcome to the club.
 

HDSkiing

You’re Sliding On-Snow; Don’t Over-Think it!
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
319
Location
The Rocky Mountains
Keep in mind that flex rating is not a universal number, it’s relative to within a boot line. I’m not familiar with the Atomic 100 it’s possible that it could be comparable to a stiffer or softer boot from another maker. At your weight and from what you describe you like to ski I think that you will be fine, assuming that the boot is first and foremost comfortable. Over time you will make the determination of what works best. Sometimes (myself included) we let numbers and equipment design whether it’s in a Ski or a boot get inside our heads and it can become a self fulfilling prophecy and easy to think that you might be in someway held back as a result.

I used to think that I always had to be in a race boot, but a combination of my age (mid 50’s) and the fact that I spend 80-100 6-10 hour days in them a season modified that. For me the lower volume (narrower last) is something that I can sense more than a moderate difference in flex. I’m a muscular/athletic 5-8 180 aggressive skier. In recent years I have been on boots from 110-130, I will be on my second pair of K2 Spyne LV 130’s this season, a great performing while comfortable boot (one of the most comfortable I have ever been in, even with its somewhat heavier weight) which for me is the right mix, that’s why I decided not to change, even though the Head Raptor 140 looked really appealing, although like someone said nothing wrong with a boot quiver...
 
Last edited:
Thread Starter
TS
A

allgash

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Posts
43
Location
East Coast
Ah, so you are one of us. Welcome to the club.

Not sure what the club is, but happy to be part of it :cool:
Before or after the heat molding? :popcorn:..............but you sound happy so I'd remain relatively unattached to the flex rating. If they feel like your bedroom slippers when you get on the steeps.......... then you may have an issue.........

After heat molding. I had to have molding done on my previous boots, which I got in either 2003 or 2004. I was due for an upgrade! The story is that I've been skiing my whole life, raced in High School, and just in the last season regained a big passion for skiing. I'm pumped that I'll have the right gear for this season :daffy::pug:
 

Jim Kenney

Travel Correspondent
Team Gathermeister
Contributor
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Posts
3,588
Location
VA
I've been skiing a 90 flex Lange boot for the last 5 years. Every once in a while my boots feel wimpy/collapsible if I'm on a stiff ski and the snow is deep or grabby and pushing me around, but most of the time I'm good with them. Before that I always had loose fitting boots for 45 years! I'm not the best to offer wise input:) But I think you'll be ok for now. I ski a fair amount of offpiste and black diamonds, but I'm old and not super aggressive and ski in a mellow manner quite a bit too.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top