Dealing With (Paralyzing) Fear

[Lauren]

...Including the majestik møøse
A Møøse once bit my sister... No realli! She was Karving her initials on the møøse with the sharpened end of an interspace tøøthbrush given her by Svenge - her brother-in-law - an Oslo dentist and star of many Norwegian møvies: "The Høt Hands of an Oslo Dentist", "Fillings of Passion", "The Huge Mølars of Horst Nordfink"...
We apologise for the fault in the subtitles.
Those responsible have been sacked.
Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretti nasti... We apologise again for the fault in the subtitles.
Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked have been sacked.
Møøse trained by YUTTE HERMSGERVØRDENBRØTBØRDA
Special Møøse Effects OLAF PROT
Møøse Costumes SIGGI CHURCHILL
Møøse Choreographed by HORST PROT III
Miss Taylor's Møøses by HENGST DOUGLAS-HOME Møøse trained to mix concrete and sign complicated insurance forms by JURGEN WIGG Møøses' noses wiped by BJØRN IRKESTØM-SLATER WALKER
Large møøse on the left hand side of the screen in the third scene from the end, given a thorough grounding in Latin, French and "O" Level Geography by BO BENN
Suggestive poses for the Møøse suggested by VIC ROTTER
Antler-care by LIV THATCHER
The directors of the firm hired to continue the credits after the other people had been sacked, wish it to be known that they have just been sacked.
The credits have been completed in an entirely different style at great expense and at the last minute.​

I'll be honest...I didn't get this reference, so my natural instinct said it was from a movie I have not seen (this happens a lot to me)...Google confirmed.

 

[Yo Momma]

Sounds like @AmyPJ 's concern is managing the "Head Space".........not the skill set............Meditation and Yoga in addition to learning breath management and control to help coordinate your brain and body during a "Fear Event" may help. Learning to manage those proprioceptive internal links during that fear is crucial. I'm a dentist and deal w/ patients who are paralyzed w/ fear every day. Managing their head space becomes the order of the day........... if I can get them to oxygenate (breathe slowly and intentionally) it activates their Parasympthetic Nervous System PNS (resting brain/Vagus nerve).

Learning to manage your breath through Yoga and Meditation can help you to control and override the Fear Event, activate your PNS, and get you to a point where you can unclamp the neurobiological clasp of Fear and essentially "Unfreeze" yourself..... at least for a moment.......... as you improve, you can get those moments to last longer and longer until some can actually sit in the dental chair for over an hour w/o issue. This takes time and practice and it is never truly mastered... so the key is to Play and Have Fun w/ it...... until you reach Nirvana!

 

[AmyPJ]

How ironic it is that you begin this thread about fear by being so brave to bring up the subject.
I salute you.

Thank you! I'm very brave in other aspects of life, for sure. I think that's one reason my fear while skiing frustrates me and perplexes me.

You skied the headwall down to Chief Joe Bowl or the south facing stuff off of the Blackfoot lift? In the fog? Either way good for you-Targhee has a lot more fog than sunny days as a rule on the upper third to half of the mountain- just ski those days. Or get some badly scratched googles to simulate the low vis. I have severe problems in those conditions-vertigo-falls are frequent- and have found myself in places I never suspected to be when I can see again. Good to hear that some western experience has given you greater confidence on your home hills. Come back to Targhee and have some more fun in the murk. As an aside, the Blackfoot lift is now a fixed grip triple- some interesting times watching unsuspecting visitors loading... and longer days for the guys working the lift.

Yes, the Blackfoot lift! I knew I was calling it the wrong thing. Yes, skied it in light so flat, I was freaking out on the flatish runout to where we dropped in. Once we dropped, I WAS scared, but because I couldn't see to the BOTTOM, I just made one turn, then another, until we reached the flatter section, and I was just fine. (A little scared, but not so much so that I couldn't function.) Next day? Full sunlight, really nice snow, I saw how FAR down that lift was, how LONG that run was, and just froze. Funny, I biked there this summer, looked up at that terrain, and marveled that I skied it. FWIW, we get a LOT of fog at Snowbasin, as in, vertigo hits HARD, and so I have learned to deal with it OK, usually knowing that once I drop down a few hundred feet, the visibility will improve at least a wee bit.

In the moment? I have no surefire recipes. Bigger picture? Make sure you ride a horse or paddle a boat or ride a bike or ski nordic or do something that chills you out. Show up at the hill with a lighter brain.

Maybe a quick lap on snowshoes isn't a bad idea. I tend to like to show up early and get first tracks, regardless of conditions. No reason I can't throw the snowshoes in the car and take a lap around the groomed track there.

That is a ridiculously simplistic thing to say! Skiing is fantastic and that is why we are all here, but to suggest that there is no terrain on this planet that would frighten you? Come one. You just haven't seen it yet. She isn't afraid of living! She is one of the bravest people I have met. You should see the competition horseback riding she does! However, she freezes up in certain ski conditions in certain types of terrain. I get that. I freeze up in steep bumps - even super soft, steep bumps. For me, it's the fear that I can't do it. This will always be amplified if there is a drop off on one side of the run. Then I fear that I will ski right off the side and be unable to turn in time to stop myself. It is a completely unreasonable fear ... but then, I can't kill rattlesnakes either. It's why I got married. Someone has to kill the ugly, dangerous things. It turns out he is also pretty darn good at talking me through the bump runs that terrify me.

Amy, if you have a guy who is patient and will talk you through tough stuff, he's a keeper!

Thanks, Pat I'm definitely not a chicken in general. I also am typically a joyous person, but joy was kind of hard to come by at all last winter. And yes, my guy has the patience of a saint and refuses to leave me, even if I insist he does. I thoroughly enjoy skiing with him, for sure! He never pressures me. We also bike together, and have a blast.

Excellent post. I've seen so many men drag women onto terrain because those men have a different view of fun and satisfaction. One thing I've noticed is that often, men seem to be happy just having gotten down something, while often women don't find that meaningful unless they feel they skied it well. I remember one time when, after a harrowing descent, my husband pointed up the hill and said, Look what you skied! He wanted me to feel proud, but I wasn't, because it had been a mess. Note: actually, it was an instructor who TF'd me on that day. Husband was just there.

Nowadays, it would be a warmup run ... but that took a lot of time on skis.

See, the perfectionism in me tends to not allow me joy unless I ski something well. I need to let that go, don't I? Probably why my favorite days last season were in powder and fluffy crud. I look quite like a tool in it, and I don't care, because it's so fun! I did ski quite a lot of steeper stuff in powder and did really well in it, including some of the steeps that I did just fine on in the powder, but freaked out on when they were groomed.

I feel like this is Fear Anonymous meeting...Hi, I'm Phil and I have fears..... Hi Phil...

I have more fear mountain biking now than I ever have..I look at what could go wrong in a situation verses what could go right. Rocks are hard and the ground hurts. Sadly since @Tricia's accident a few year back, she is in the same boat. Have these fears been projected on one another? Maybe, maybe not and if so it is not fair either way. You know what? We are fine with it and have accepted the fact that we just don't enjoy aggressive mountain biking on anything more than what you might consider a green or blue trail. Are we wimps now? Some might say so but we have found other things that we enjoy in place of it.

I have much more comfortable on skis than I ever was...but more so on the ground. I don't like being in the air as much as I did when I was younger. Last season was the first season ever that I did not do a helicopter...why? probably because of the fear of failure. Failure to get all around, that 270* that slams you on the ground, maybe the fear of embarrassment of not doing it, not sure.

I won't even get into the fears of launching Pugski. The fears of the unknown from when we were released from Epic. As they say, that is a whole 'nother talk show.

Wish you guys could make a trip out here to ride with us and 4ster. I'm very OK with being comfortable with easier trails on the bike. I do it for the exercise and to get outside and to hang with friends and the man friend. I am VERY competitive on the climbs, and there are always sections that challenge my technical skills, and sometimes I ride them, and sometimes I don't. Not sure why I'm more comfortable on the bike and don't carry the ego with it, frankly. We've been pondering that all summer. My thought is that 1) I don't feel the pressure from others to get my ass down the hill 2) I don't hurl myself down a steep slope on the bike--nothing is super steep, and nothing has an unobstructed view for 100s of yards down such a hill and 3) I don't have people zipping by me, which truth be told, freaks me out on skis.

Another factor that I've been grappling with is that my daughter was recently diagnosed autistic. In that discovery process of reading books and studies and articles, I have seen a lot of similarities in me--particularly the anxiety and sensory processing issues that accompany it. When I hear a skier or even worse, snowboarder coming behind me, I stiffen up because it's so LOUD to me. I've also been hit from behind more than once, and had near misses several times. There are also gross motor function skills that go with the territory. In order for me to master a move that others seem to get quickly and easily, I have to do it OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER... and even then, it's a crapshoot if I'll every TRULY master it. I sometimes think the dynamic nature of skiing along with the willingness to allow myself to be out of control makes it a lot for me to master.

I'm getting some ideas from this thread, including things I might tell people I'm skiing with to do if I DO freeze up to help me. What @Muleski 's story above told--get in someone's head by talking talking talking, and not necessarily about skiing. Talking helps to release that negative energy. I also need to stop being a perfectionist and comparing myself to other skiers. And ski a lot more powder Because powder makes my day fun and joyous, and I forget about perfection and just go play!

 

[AmyPJ]

Sounds like @AmyPJ 's concern is managing the "Head Space".........not the skill set............Meditation and Yoga in addition to learning breath management and control to help coordinate your brain and body during a "Fear Event" may help. Learning to manage those proprioceptive internal links during that fear is crucial. I'm a dentist and deal w/ patients who are paralyzed w/ fear every day. Managing their head space becomes the order of the day........... if I can get them to oxygenate (breathe slowly and intentionally) it activates their Parasympthetic Nervous System PNS (resting brain/Vagus nerve).

Learning to manage your breath through Yoga and Meditation can help you to control and override the Fear Event, activate your PNS, and get you to a point where you can unclamp the neurobiological clasp of Fear and essentially "Unfreeze" yourself..... at least for a moment.......... as you improve, you can get those moments to last longer and longer until some can actually sit in the dental chair for over an hour w/o issue. This takes time and practice and it is never truly mastered... so the key is to Play and Have Fun w/ it...... until you reach Nirvana!

Yes, 100%, although my skill set needs some work, too, but honestly, a lot of my skill issues relate to defensive/fearful skiing. I have one very specific issue (I hold my outside ski way too long, comes from that security of a wedge turn, I think) so I have some drills I'm going to do from day 1 on the bunny hill to try to eliminate that habit for good this season.

And, I'm that patient in the dentist chair, but typically only if I need work that requires numbing. I've nearly passed out while having work done in the past. I'm working on meditation, but I have a very hard time clearing my mind.

 

[Monique]

I like to sing when skiing - it tightens your core, distracts your brain, and if you do it loudly enough, other people give wide berth. But I'm not sure I could pull it off if truly gripped. Which, yes, I think is probably the perfect word for this kind of fear.

 

[Yo Momma]

I'm working on meditation, but I have a very hard time clearing my mind.

That's where Yoga comes in........... it gives the mind a physical goal to focus on.
Also clearing the mind is optional in some forms of meditation........... all one really needs to do is have the thoughts. No need, and it's actually futile to fight them off. Accept that you have thoughts............ simply ........ don't attach to said thoughts............ just let them in.......... and let them out........... it's that simple.......... lack of attachment to the thoughts is the ultimate goal........... it's like a butterfly landing in your palm... it lands...... you observe for a moment........... it leaves........... Fun and Beautiful at the same time......

Also given your Avatar, and some of the threads I've seen you on.......... your skill set looks and sounds just fine........... My buddies who taught me to ski the Deep, took me to a spot when living out at Wolf Creek. They said this WILL make you pucker (I was paralyzed and breathing like a madman to calm down)......They said, "we know your skill set, just trust your body to perform." We were lined up and dropped in one by one........ I was 5th in line....... as I saw the last guy in front of me drop in......I felt the most fear I've EVER felt in my life (other than having a handgun held to my head when I was an 11 yo in the South Bronx YIKES!)............. I froze for a moment ........... and dropped........... it was a leap of Faith......... my entire life flashed before me and I handed myself over to the Universe........ she picked me up and dropped me into the most AMAZING bowl nestled on top of a waterfall........ it was Bliss! Sometimes you just have to let go of the thoughts and skills, and just breathe.

 

[Don in Morrison]

Excellent post. I've seen so many men drag women onto terrain because those men have a different view of fun and satisfaction. One thing I've noticed is that often, men seem to be happy just having gotten down something, while often women don't find that meaningful unless they feel they skied it well. I remember one time when, after a harrowing descent, my husband pointed up the hill and said, Look what you skied! He wanted me to feel proud, but I wasn't, because it had been a mess. Note: actually, it was an instructor who TF'd me on that day. Husband was just there.

Nowadays, it would be a warmup run ... but that took a lot of time on skis.

Being both an engineer and an artist, I often experience both of those sensations at the same time. The Artist says "This is gonna be ugly, don't do it", while the Engineer says, "Yeah, it's gonna be ugly, but who cares, you'll still make it.". On rare occasions, when the Artist says "No. Way.", the Engineer concurs, with, "You really don't have the skills to attempt this, go back."

 

[tromano]

When I was about to become a dad for the first time the doctor explained to Madeline and I that when the baby arrives there are big hormonal changes for the mom (obviously) and also for dad too. Testosterone levels drop for new dads who help with the baby by alot. I definitely noticed a change in my risk seeking behaviors for a few years while we had little babies in the house. Men also naturally get lower testosterone as we age. My point simply is that some of the things that affect our risk acceptance are things beyond the individual conscious control. No point blaming yourself or feeling like a failure.

 

[mdf]

some can actually sit in the dental chair for over an hour w/o issue.

I fell asleep while my dentist was working on a crown.

 

[AmyPJ]

When I was about to become a dad for the first time the doctor explained to Madeline and I that when the baby arrives there are big hormonal changes for the mom (obviously) and also for dad too. Testosterone levels drop for new dads who help with the baby by alot. I definitely noticed a change in my risk seeking behaviors for a few years while we had little babies in the house. Men also naturally get lower testosterone as we age. My point simply is that some of the things that affect our risk acceptance are things beyond the individual conscious control. No point blaming yourself or feeling like a failure.

I remember you being my "hero" on pushing myself onto stuff that YOU knew I could do. I just needed someone to lead me there that I trusted--the top of Main Street (which I panicked on last season when it was groomed) and Powderhound Bowl. Let's ski together more this year.

Those of you who don't know, Mr. @tromano is a beautiful skier! And his wife and I had fun skiing together. Me working on the mountain prevented me from doing so last season. That will be different this season!

 

[T-Square]

I fell asleep while my dentist was working on a crown.

I fell asleep during, of all things, a root canal. And to top it off the dentist was Dr. Root!

 

[T-Square]

Standing in a harness looking down at the 30’ tethered free fall drop that I was about to do my brain told my feet to step off but my feet didn’t listen. Weird feeling when the body fails to listen to the brain.

In college I was standing on top of a hill with a primitive hang glider on my back. Could not take that first step, that was paralyzing fear. And it has nothing to do with anything but a very healthy self preservation impulse.

 

[Lauren]

I remember you being my "hero" on pushing myself onto stuff that YOU knew I could do. I just needed someone to lead me there that I trusted

Having someone with you that you know knows your limits, is absolutely priceless. If you trust that person, it's worth even more. Sounds like you have a few of those people in your ski life...maybe it's a matter of skiing the hard stuff when you have those people with you, and backing off a bit when you don't? Eventually, maybe you'll learn to trust your own voice as much as you trust theirs?

Not sure if I'm completely off on that thought process, but based on your comments, it seems like there are certain people that you will ski the tough stuff with, and with others (or by yourself), it's different somehow.

 

[AmyPJ]

Having someone with you that you know knows your limits, is absolutely priceless. If you trust that person, it's worth even more. Sounds like you have a few of those people in your ski life...maybe it's a matter of skiing the hard stuff when you have those people with you, and backing off a bit when you don't? Eventually, maybe you'll learn to trust your own voice as much as you trust theirs?

Not sure if I'm completely off on that thought process, but based on your comments, it seems like there are certain people that you will ski the tough stuff with, and with others (or by yourself), it's different somehow.

Absolutely, yes to BOTH statements. Even better was @tromano would go scout the run beforehand then come and give me the thumbs up and say, "you've got this!" My boyfriend does the same. The times we ran into the most trouble were on mountains that I had not skied before and in conditions that threw in other variables that made it more challenging than on, say, a powder day.

I'm developing a plan of attack for this season, which involves a lot of skill building drills to fix my worst habit, mixed with some runs just for fun. But I still need a personal plan for myself for those moments of sheer panic, because panic does me no good, and it can happen on runs that I've skied previously, but in different conditions. I'm going to have to rely on myself in those situations. Boyfriend also has a few instructors in mind for me to ski with who he thinks will do me worlds of good.

At the end of the day, though, I really need to develop some coping mechanisms that I can enlist myself. It has to be a thought process, not just breathing exercises, as I've tried those before, but they still don't shut my over-active brain off. Sometimes, in the past, focusing on one specific movement pattern (as was referenced earlier in this thread about "diving in") which includes visualization AND use of a movement pattern.

 

[VickiK]

@AmyPJ , let's do a ski camp together sometime.

 

[Core2]

That is a ridiculously simplistic thing to say! Skiing is fantastic and that is why we are all here, but to suggest that there is no terrain on this planet that would frighten you? Come one. You just haven't seen it yet. She isn't afraid of living! She is one of the bravest people I have met. You should see the competition horseback riding she does! However, she freezes up in certain ski conditions in certain types of terrain. I get that. I freeze up in steep bumps - even super soft, steep bumps. For me, it's the fear that I can't do it. This will always be amplified if there is a drop off on one side of the run. Then I fear that I will ski right off the side and be unable to turn in time to stop myself. It is a completely unreasonable fear ... but then, I can't kill rattlesnakes either. It's why I got married. Someone has to kill the ugly, dangerous things. It turns out he is also pretty darn good at talking me through the bump runs that terrify me.

Amy, if you have a guy who is patient and will talk you through tough stuff, he's a keeper!

Don't kill rattlesnakes. Not only is it illegal but it does more harm than good. They are on your property or around you for a reason, most likely their food (mice and rats) are nearby. So killing them allows more mice and rats to move in which in turn brings more snakes in. You can relocate rattlesnakes 1/2 mile from where you find them and you will eliminate the problem. Not every ugly dangerous thing you perceive as a threat needs to be killed, just saying.

 

[AmyPJ]

@AmyPJ , let's do a ski camp together sometime.

I'd love that!

 

[surfsnowgirl]

It seems with me at least it has nothing to do with ski ability but everything to do with confidence. This might not be the best analogy but I feel like it illustrates what happens to me. I'm a Pantera fan and Dimebag Darrel was a very capable guitarist but he had debilitating stage fright to the point he would just freeze. They literally had to pour some whiskey down his throat before every show so he could get out of his head and do his thang. I'm not saying a shot of whiskey is the solution to the problem, I'm just saying that paralyzing fear is a freezing of the brain and just sheer panic, even though you have the ability to get down that trail. I'm book marking this thread because there's great stuff in here about how to deal with the mental part which I think is much of the gateway to the solution.

 

[AmyPJ]

It seems with me at least it has nothing to do with ski ability but everything to do with confidence. This might not be the best analogy but I feel like it illustrates what happens to me. I'm a Pantera fan and Dimebag Darrel was a very capable guitarist but he had debilitating stage fright to the point he would just freeze. They literally had to pour some whiskey down his throat before every show so he could get out of his head and do his thang. I'm not saying a shot of whiskey is the solution to the problem, I'm just saying that paralyzing fear is a freezing of the brain and just sheer panic, even though you have the ability to get down that trail. I'm book marking this thread because there's great stuff in here about how to deal with the mental part which I think is much of the gateway to the solution.

Interestingly, I've skied with a buzz ONCE, and I was so loose and relaxed. That being said, I'm not a fan of skiing impaired, but somehow need to channel that feeling when I'm sober. I've actually contemplated taking xanax for a day just to see how it would affect me. I used to take xanax before I'd compete on my horse until I learned (thanks to the xanax) how to deal with the mental challenges of showing. It does not cause a sedative effect when I'm active, only if I'm just sitting around. Otherwise, it gives me almost tunnel vision. Outside distractions are eliminated, and my muscular reactions are softer and quieter.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Interestingly, I've skied with a buzz ONCE, and I was so loose and relaxed. That being said, I'm not a fan of skiing impaired, but somehow need to channel that feeling when I'm sober. I've actually contemplated taking xanax for a day just to see how it would affect me. I used to take xanax before I'd compete on my horse until I learned (thanks to the xanax) how to deal with the mental challenges of showing. It does not cause a sedative effect when I'm active, only if I'm just sitting around. Otherwise, it gives me almost tunnel vision. Outside distractions are eliminated, and my muscular reactions are softer and quieter.

Wasn't advocating skiing impaired at all. Just meant that it's the mental part not skiing ability that affects things. Agreed that somehow that feeling needs to be channeled to get one out of their head and let the body do what it knows how to do. I used to take kava kava pills when I snowboarded years ago. I took a quarter xanax tablet when i took my level 1 because I was frozen nervous.