Dealing With (Paralyzing) Fear

[AmyPJ]

Amy, I’ve followed most of this thread with interest, empathy, and sympathy. I’ve struggled with true paralyzing fear while skiing (just ask Uncle Louie about me on International at Vail). I’ve taken ski camps, read books, and nothing has really helped. One ski camp actually made it worse. On the hill, some days are good, others, well, you understand.

I am currently reading a book by Dan Heath and came across some stuff about courage I thought might resonate with you. It’s from his newest book called “The Power of Moments.” Without doing an entire book report here, it’s actually about customer service and creating memorable moments for your clients. That said, Mr. Heath writes about creating courageous moments. One example is how the military “trains for courage” and one technique they used is described as “the gradual and graduated practice of the dangerous tasks likely to be encountered.” The result is “the successful practice of courageous performance” which led to reduced fear and increased confidence. Another example he offers is how someone terrified of spiders uses this approach and, within two hours, can have a tarantula walk across his/her ungloved hand. Wow. And Eww.

He also writes about a psychologist, Peter Gollwitzer, using “implementation intentions” to build courage before facing the potentially fearful situation. “If I find myself on a steep, ungroomed trail, I will do (fill in the blank).” It’s “preloading” your behavior so when you’re actually experiencing that which you fear, you already have your plan ready to go.

My take on this is folks like us just need to keep trying, bit by bit, to ski the stuff that scares us. Have a mental plan ready for when the fear grips us. And then…one turn….another turn…

Have a safe, fun, and courageous ski season, and maybe see you at the Gathering!

Thanks, SugarCube! That sounds like a good book for me to read for more reasons than just skiing fear, since I just obtained my real estate license!

Implementation intentions sound like visualization, which is something I do like to utilize. It's not always easy when the movement patterns just aren't there for certain situations BUT I can sure visualize ways to calm myself, and give myself courage in the moment.

Would LOVE to ski with you! I'm guessing I'll be leading some groups at Snowbasin, since it's my home mountain. Not sure about any of the other days, but I'm guessing I'll be able to participate for at least one of them. Would love to take some runs together with another "fear head" who gets it

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

Hold on now. Do you have statistics on that? I suspect that far more people die on blue groomers than on steep bumps. It's hard to get enough speed going in bumps to kill yourself. A slow-motion "phantom foot" ACL tear? Sure, that I buy.

I meant as compared to "stage fright." No one dies from live public performance. People do die from skiing; not so much from musical theater!

 

[Monique]

I meant as compared to "stage fright." No one dies from live public performance. People do die from skiing; not so much from musical theater!

Correct! I just quibble with your specific example.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

Correct! I just quibble with your specific example.

I am far more likely to hit a long slide with a tough self arrest as a I bounce through hard bumps and therefore suffer a serious injury than I would on a fall on a blue groomer. On a blue groomer, I may blow out a knee; on a steep, I may slide a long way and crash into a hard obstacle with more permanent consequences. It's not what I said in the first place, but potential injuries on steeps are much more consequential.

 

[Don Duran]

We seem to be right back to the idea of retraining ourselves to react to fear in a positive way. One student of mine chose to shout f bombs on every mogul (yes steep moguls can be very scary). Coping mechanisms are as unique and varied as the people using them. In her case she is an Aussie so that word isn't vulgar in her country but the cathartic release allowed her to face her fear head on. Subsequent runs on similar terrain over the past five years have never resulted in any more cursing. Although cliffs will still evoke an emphatic no from her so we don't go there.

 

[PTskier]

Amy, did you get some information that will help you, and others may benefit also?

There seems to be two questions to ask here:
1--Is the problem fear of heights? If so, there is psychological help for that, tips or books or professional help.
2--Is the problem lack of confidence in one's ability to ski the steep slopes in control? I think that one needs to know all the movements to engage the front half of the inside edge of the outside ski in the top 1/3rd of the turn to set the turn radius for speed control. There's a lot in this, and it needs to be tackled one thing at a time on slopes that don't cause worry.

 

[AmyPJ]

Amy, did you get some information that will help you, and others may benefit also?

There seems to be two questions to ask here:
1--Is the problem fear of heights? If so, there is psychological help for that, tips or books or professional help.
2--Is the problem lack of confidence in one's ability to ski the steep slopes in control? I think that one needs to know all the movements to engage the front half of the inside edge of the outside ski in the top 1/3rd of the turn to set the turn radius for speed control. There's a lot in this, and it needs to be tackled one thing at a time on slopes that don't cause worry.

Yes.
Both.


@Don Duran, I drop the F bombs but it's out of frustration with MYSELF. That's pretty funny. I wish it worked for me. I need to do something that makes me feel less angry, because I get really angry with myself when I get that scared.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

Amy, did you get some information that will help you, and others may benefit also?

There seems to be two questions to ask here:
1--Is the problem fear of heights? If so, there is psychological help for that, tips or books or professional help.
2--Is the problem lack of confidence in one's ability to ski the steep slopes in control? I think that one needs to know all the movements to engage the front half of the inside edge of the outside ski in the top 1/3rd of the turn to set the turn radius for speed control. There's a lot in this, and it needs to be tackled one thing at a time on slopes that don't cause worry.

I had quite a bit of paralyzing fear when I started skiing (and still do in certain situations).
My fear was neither 1 or 2. I learned proper skills from the beginning. Several different instructors would comment: I do not understand your fear because you have all the skills to do this. I knew that I could physically do it but there was some mental barrier that caused me to become defensive which impedes performance.

I have developed strategies to push myself out of my comfort zone by choosing a challenge and skiing that same run over and over until it becomes comfortable. I ski with people I trust and follow them in terrain where I would not go myself. Some days, I just tell myself to take a big girl pill and decide I am going to ski "x".

It is a slow process but I am enjoying the journey. I know my limits and know when its time to back off.

 

[James]

We might have sent humans to the moon, but the rocket didn't take off in a thunderstorm. There's no dishonor in waiting for the right conditions to push a personal boundary.

Actually...
Apollo 12 launched in a rain storm. It essentially generated it's own lightning. The lightning strike on the command module temporarily took out the electrical system and computer. The launch computer controlling the rocket was thankfully entirely separate. The crisis was solved by controller John Aaron at Mission Control. He had them throw an obscure switch that reset the electrical system though it wasn't designed for that. His "SCE to AUX" is famous at NASA. Saved the flight.

In context of this thread he was well prepared for something that might happen. When it did it didn't require time or panic to respond.

 

[karlo]

Yes

Hey! That's my playbook!

I snooze, I lose.

 

[AmyPJ]

I had quite a bit of paralyzing fear when I started skiing (and still do in certain situations).
My fear was neither 1 or 2. I learned proper skills from the beginning. Several different instructors would comment: I do not understand your fear because you have all the skills to do this. I knew that I could physically do it but there was some mental barrier that caused me to become defensive which impedes performance.

I have developed strategies to push myself out of my comfort zone by choosing a challenge and skiing that same run over and over until it becomes comfortable. I ski with people I trust and follow them in terrain where I would not go myself. Some days, I just tell myself to take a big girl pill and decide I am going to ski "x".

It is a slow process but I am enjoying the journey. I know my limits and know when its time to back off.

Nancy, I hear this ALL THE TIME, which I think adds to my frustration. "Well, gee, I SHOULD be able to ski this, so dammit, what am I so afraid of!?" That's when I start cussing at myself, which is pretty counterproductive.

And funny, I tend to pick a run or two that challenge me and do the same thing-ski it over and over, while others are bored and want to never ski the same run twice.

 

[PTskier]

How does it work to find a short steep pitch with an easy run-out? A very steep pitch for two or three or four turns, then easy going? Perfect your technique on the steep part, then coast away on the easy stuff. The visual should be less daunting, and even if you fall, you won't slide far. As you get good on this, find a steep pitch a bit longer and build on what you know you can do.

there was some mental barrier that caused me to become defensive which impedes performance.

Been there. Done that. I find that a reminder on one crucial movement sets everything up to work well. For me, it's strongly pulling my feet back so my head & shoulders feel like the first part down the hill. When I get that working, everything else comes along fine. What one movement started off right will set you up for success?

 

[L&AirC]

Nancy, I hear this ALL THE TIME, which I think adds to my frustration. "Well, gee, I SHOULD be able to ski this, so dammit, what am I so afraid of!?" That's when I start cussing at myself, which is pretty counterproductive.

And funny, I tend to pick a run or two that challenge me and do the same thing-ski it over and over, while others are bored and want to never ski the same run twice.

I will admit I haven't read more than the first couple and last couple posts since I decided to join after 19 pages. Though I've no certifications in mental health, I have lots of experience in dealing with fear; my own and others. I spent 20 years in the Marines (swim quals and hiking with a gas mask can freak people out) and have taught swimming and SCUBA. You can't reason with fear. You have to outsmart it.

I don't agree with skiing something until you're comfortable with it if you're so scared that you can't ski well. I do believe in building up to such things in BABY steps until you're comfortable. To me, this would be like asking an inexperienced driver that has never driven through NY City on I-95 to just keep making loops until they're comfortable. I would recommend driving on highways of increasing complexity to get comfortable. I know this can be challenging if you live in NYC and not Idaho, but you get the idea.

I would recommend skiing increasingly steeper terrain until you OWN each one until you get to the point that the trail that scares you, isn't that much different than the last one you did. This could be a challenge in that there isn't always a gradual progression, but what you can do is do drills on the less steeper trail that will make it as much of if not more of a challenge than the steeper trail. Lets say trail A is a 30% grade and B is a 40% grade and is the one that scares you. Keep skiing A until you can do things like lift the inside ski on a turn and do it as correctly as you can on a 20% grade.

My guess is you don't need to get comfortable with the steepness of the trail, but the confidence you have in your abilities on a steep trail. Step up your game on not as steep trails will build your tool box for the steeper trails and your confidence.

I would think that if you could ski on one ski on even a 25% grade, and then went to a 40% grade to ski on two skis, it wouldn't seem like much of a challenge.

After 19 pages, you have probably received something along these lines already so consider this another vote for doing that.

You could also consider doing easy skills on the scary steep trail. Side slipping, traverses etc. Though this won't help with the confidence in your skills, it will help with your environmental confidence (i.e. being from Idaho and able to drive well but never driven in NY City, so you first go out as a passenger just to experience what NYC highways are like. You will also need to practice flipping the bird at high speed).

BTW, this is how I dealt with skiing steeper terrain. Go to the terrain you're comfortable (blue trail) with and start doing drills you're comfortable with (lift inside ski) on easier (green) terrain, and keep doing them until you own them on that steeper (blue) trail. After that, do a harder skill (lift outside ski) and keep going doing harder (ski one ski) and harder skills on the not as scary (blue) trail. I assure you that if you can ski on one ski well on a challenging trail, you will be able to look down a scary trail that you're going to ski with two skis on and think "Childs play"

I used green and blue trails just as a reference of the progression. You might be able to do all of the progression on black trails. Customize it to you.

You're already past the hardest part and that is deciding to do something about it.

Keep at it.

Ken

 

[karlo]

I would recommend skiing increasingly steeper terrain until you OWN each one

Yes. And, the drills too. I would add one more thing. On the shallower slopes, trick one's mind into seeing them as steep. Then, ski them as one would want to if they were steep. Train psyche, tactics, and skills for steepness, on shallower terrain.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

I will admit I haven't read more than the first couple and last couple posts since I decided to join after 19 pages. Though I've no certifications in mental health, I have lots of experience in dealing with fear; my own and others. I spent 20 years in the Marines (swim quals and hiking with a gas mask can freak people out) and have taught swimming and SCUBA. You can't reason with fear. You have to outsmart it.

I don't agree with skiing something until you're comfortable with it if you're so scared that you can't ski well. I do believe in building up to such things in BABY steps until you're comfortable. To me, this would be like asking an inexperienced driver that has never driven through NY City on I-95 to just keep making loops until they're comfortable. I would recommend driving on highways of increasing complexity to get comfortable. I know this can be challenging if you live in NYC and not Idaho, but you get the idea.

I would recommend skiing increasingly steeper terrain until you OWN each one until you get to the point that the trail that scares you, isn't that much different than the last one you did. This could be a challenge in that there isn't always a gradual progression, but what you can do is do drills on the less steeper trail that will make it as much of if not more of a challenge than the steeper trail. Lets say trail A is a 30% grade and B is a 40% grade and is the one that scares you. Keep skiing A until you can do things like lift the inside ski on a turn and do it as correctly as you can on a 20% grade.

My guess is you don't need to get comfortable with the steepness of the trail, but the confidence you have in your abilities on a steep trail. Step up your game on not as steep trails will build your tool box for the steeper trails and your confidence.

I would think that if you could ski on one ski on even a 25% grade, and then went to a 40% grade to ski on two skis, it wouldn't seem like much of a challenge.

After 19 pages, you have probably received something along these lines already so consider this another vote for doing that.

You could also consider doing easy skills on the scary steep trail. Side slipping, traverses etc. Though this won't help with the confidence in your skills, it will help with your environmental confidence (i.e. being from Idaho and able to drive well but never driven in NY City, so you first go out as a passenger just to experience what NYC highways are like. You will also need to practice flipping the bird at high speed).

BTW, this is how I dealt with skiing steeper terrain. Go to the terrain you're comfortable (blue trail) with and start doing drills you're comfortable with (lift inside ski) on easier (green) terrain, and keep doing them until you own them on that steeper (blue) trail. After that, do a harder skill (lift outside ski) and keep going doing harder (ski one ski) and harder skills on the not as scary (blue) trail. I assure you that if you can ski on one ski well on a challenging trail, you will be able to look down a scary trail that you're going to ski with two skis on and think "Childs play"

I used green and blue trails just as a reference of the progression. You might be able to do all of the progression on black trails. Customize it to you.

You're already past the hardest part and that is deciding to do something about it.

Keep at it.

Ken

1. When I say challenging, I don't mean it is something that is so scary, I can't ski it well. I am talking about something that objectively and intellectually, I know I have the ability to ski safely but for some reason it generates fear.

2. We all need to deal with fear in our own way and that has to do with what is causing the fear.

3. I do not look upon it as "outsmarting the fear" but confronting the fear and eliminating it.
My system has worked great for me. I continue to ski steeper, bumpier, nastier terrain with better skills. As I mentioned, it is a slow process but effective.

4. I agree with you on the terrain selection. I spend plenty of time on green/blue terrain doing everything from one ski skiing to white pass turns. It is a part of my program and it works.

5. Bob Barnes had a guideline for improvement and I dont recall the exact numbers but it was about how much time to spend on easy terrain, comfort zone terrain and a bit out of the comfort zone terrain.

 

[Monique]

I don't know if this is relevant for AmyPJ or not ...

Last season I spent a lot of time "back to basics." Working on technical skiing.

Historically, on the WROD, I have trouble staying at a reasonable speed without resorting to Z turns. Unless I was following someone's nice rounded slow turns, I would tend to start going faster and faster and just let it happen, because it was "more fun." And it sort of was ... but it was also scary because it was not safe, and I was retconning it into a choice rather than a limitation.

This season so far, I've had a bunch of runs on the WROD, and all my technical work seems to be paying off. I can hold a much more appropriate pace for conditions (read: people). Sometimes I still scrape across the hill between turns, but I have a higher percentage of turns where I'm completing my turns and transitioning appropriately.

The flip side of this was when I finally got onto steeps last season. The same skills that allowed me to control my speed today were the skills that allowed me to ski better on rougher snow and steeper lines. Knowing I have more control makes me more confident of skiing the steeps in various conditions.

 

[VickiK]

@AmyPJ congrats on passing!

 

[mdf]

retconning

A very useful concept

 

[AmyPJ]

@AmyPJ congrats on passing!

Thank you!! What a big step for me!

 

[Lauren]

Came across this Ted Talk yesterday, and thought I'd share here. It's a talk from pro skier Elyse Saugstad who discusses her fears. She talks about determining if they're rational or irrational. If they're rational, she discusses being okay with walking away. If they're irrational, she talks about coping methods; mostly methods that are partially redundant to things mentioned in this thread, visualization and yelling out to get out of your head and relax. Even though her fear is different than what would be considered paralyzing, I think there's a lot good information she shares first hand.