Currently: SL in Val Disere

[Swede]

1st going on. Very variable conditions.

(W SG/SC in St Moritz cancelled, so waiting for 2nd with W XC 10K from Davos)

 

[Franzz]

Powder skiing at its best, kinda slow motion runs.))

 

[Swede]

Slow in bad viz. Became a loong SL.

Spoilers might occur if you continue.

Hint, don’t go to ski forums, especially not the racing section, after a race is over if you don’t want to know avout results.

After 1st I thought, ok now it shows that Hirscher has had too little time this fall, seemed off his usual great stance, ended up to much back quite often. I guess he noticed too and fixed it for 2nd.
...

 

[Started at 53]

Spoiler: Not this time

Nope, I am not giving out the result

 

[Eleeski]

@Started at 53 WTF? Results please.

Eric

 

[Started at 53]

@Started at 53 WTF? Results please.

Eric

No surprise

Spoiler

MH dominated the 2nd run and won easily

 

[Tricia]

Spoiler: Not this time

Nope, I am not giving out the result

You're such a tease!

No surprise

Spoiler

MH dominated the 2nd run and won easily

Did you mean

Spoiler

MS instead of MH

 

[4ster]

@Started at 53 WTF? Results please.

Eric

Here ya go...

For @Eleeski

 

[HardDaysNight]

Most discouraging! The USST had better hope MS remains healthy or they might as well not show up to the Olympics.

 

[Muleski]

I guess that we're past Spoiler Time, or hope so. Full disclosure: I didn't watch it all. Which is unusual for me. I "selectively" watched some of the top runs.

As far as the USA, this is going to be a long SL season for the men, and my suggestion is to try to look for some bright spots, and signs of improvement as the season progresses. It's going to be incredibly frustrating, looking for the bright spots.

Dave Choudunsky was 18th after the first run, 1.14 out. Pretty solid, not great. Skied out in the second. Mark Engel DNF'd in the first run. 23 others did as well. Robby Kelly finished his first run, as he tends to do even after blowing up. 9 seconds out.

Hig Roberts finished run one in 36th, from bib number 58. AJ Ginnis, was right behind him from bib 50.

So the encouraging news is that ALL of these guys are skiing sections as fast as anybody, and they are ALL so close to skiing second runs, and scoring WC points. That's progress.
Are they going to be on any podiums? No. Not this season.

We're looking at the "Best in the World" strategy of Marolt playing out. It may be the worst in men's SL. Choudunsky is a great guy, good solid skier, 33 years old, and not a podium threat. The other guys can and should get better...but Robby and Hig {along with Michael Ankeny} are self funding. I believe in all three, and hope that they stick with it past this season.

Hig would benefit, if the cards worked the right way, from a NorAm SL win {or close} or two, to lower his point profile from his 10.45, to something like 7-8. He has that kind of speed. 7 points would lower his WR to about 40. And significantly improve his start position. His WR is around 70. AJ's points are around 9. WR is around 50. He's also just 23.

So, there is reason to hope for some good improvement.

Today's #5, Jonno Norbotten of Norway{ex UVM} was trading podiums not that long ago on the NCAA with a few of these guys. He's 28.

The Germans had four guys score points. Norwegians had two in the top 5, four scoring points, led by HK. Five Austrians scoring....let by Hirscher. Myhrer of Sweden in 3rd, Hargin 8th. Four Frenchmen scoring.

Five skiers, bibs 45 and higher, scoring.

Big days for some, not great for others, but they still scored WC points. Ryding, Khoro.

Not hard to see where we stand right now. I think our guys will get better results. I think they are more of a team than some may realize. Good coach.

It's an Olympic year. In two months. Based on the USST's desire to measure success based on medals, we are not there. I think that measurement is about as dumb as the USST criteria. Having half of these guys always wondering where they stand is not, IMO, making them ski faster.

A lot of other countries have made some serious strides. About time for us.

Expectations of much in Korea would be, IMO, far out of line.

Lots of work to be done. Have to search for the bright spots.

 

[Tricia]

Most discouraging! The USST had better hope MS remains healthy or they might as well not show up to the Olympics.

This is the reason we were questioning the nominations back in May.
No matter how much we love some of these athletes, the USST resources may have been better served spent on some of the young healthy skiers who would benefit from the intensity of training and backing.

 

[HardDaysNight]

This is the reason we were questioning the nominations back in May.
No matter how much we love some of these athletes, the USST resources may have been better served spent on some of the young healthy skiers who would benefit from the intensity of training and backing.

I think this is dead right. I just rewatched the coverage and it’s actually worse than discouraging. With the exception of Choudunsky, who’s a decent technical skier, the rest looked abysmal, replete with gross technical errors that would make an U16 coach puke! Are these guys actually getting any proper coaching given that they have to pay for themselves?

 

[Muleski]

I think this is dead right. I just rewatched the coverage and it’s actually worse than discouraging. With the exception of Choudunsky, who’s a decent technical skier, the rest looked abysmal, replete with gross technical errors that would make an U16 coach puke! Are these guys actually getting any proper coaching given that they have to pay for themselves?

A few comments. That's one of, if not THE toughest SL hills on the WC. It's not easy. I would respectfully suggest that unless folks have either raced it, to spoken to friends who have, or have coached on the hill, they may not grasp that. And when you watch video, you MUST make it all into consideration. In addition tot the heavy snow and lack of visibility. The best handful of guys look good, the rest?

I have watched every one of the American guys who started race, and train, in the same courses. I'll disagree a bit with the "gross technical errors that would make a U16 coach puke." Actually spoke to one of the top U!6 coaches in the country/world last night, he had seem some video and was not puking. Thinks this group is making progress. The younger guys in every event are making strides, but they are behind International peers.

The number of guys who ski two clean runs in a WC SL, without a few significant problems is about five a race. The tougher the hill, the less clean it is. When you see these guys all training on the same surface, it is pretty amazing at how much they look alike. Every one of those guys can, and has, beaten Chowder in training.

Coaching. Some might argue that the independent guys get MORE coaching than the USST guys. They have all worked with the head USST SL coach, but to be honest, an awful lot of self coaching takes place even with the best on the WC. At this time of year, they might be working on one thing, or thinking tactics {particularly for a given hill or set.} It's somewhat shocking to see what coaching is

I mentioned in an earlier post a lot of the countries that has many scoring WC SL points. Not many years ago, many were NOT. The Germans have become much stronger. The younger men are strong. Not long ago, the Norwegians were not strong. Add HK, a couple of guys from the NCAA, and few other guys who mature and they are loaded.

Chowder is a legit SL skier who should score points every day. He is not a podium or medal threat. He's 6-7 years older than the rest, and he was right where they were, or slower, when he graduated from Dartmouth and clawed his way onto the WC and the team.

Yes, this group is not that far away. The independent guys are not all in the same place in terms of support. Ideally you'd have a coach and a tech. Not may have $250K {or more} to run that that kind of program. Some of them have been welcomed by other national teams, with open invitations to train, which just sounds strange. "Sure, come train with our WC tech team, since you can't with your own." I think it may be better these days.

Yes, this comes down to two things. One is how much total revenue does the USST take in, and how can they increase it. And, like any business, how do you allocate those resources. How do you spend that money?

I am very surprised whenever I see a part of any org chart of the USSSA/USST. There is an article I ski racing today written by the Director of Athlete Career and Education {ACE}. I am sure that she does a great job, and is a great person. I doubt if she's under-compensated, and I wonder how essential that job is?

I do not think that "lean and mean" applies to the USST , other than when it comes to funding athletes.

My impression has always been that we cut them too soon, we make it too hard to qualify, and we let them hang on FAR too long. If Tiger Shaw has stated that this is all about winning medals, why do we hold onto skiers who are older, on the downside, and who will NEVER win a medal or podium in a WC at this stage?

IMO, the entire organization needs a lot of change. . And I'm not alone, by any means!

I'm choosing not to get worked up about results. It's going to be a tough year. So I'm looking for any bright spots. Hard as that may be.

 

[Tricia]

I'm choosing not to get worked up about results. It's going to be a tough year. So I'm looking for any bright spots. Hard as that may be.

This.
Its a tough year and its tough to see some absolutely amazing athletes work through pain.

 

[Jack skis]

There's plenty of room for criticism concerning the USSA, or is it the now the USSSA?, but I think we ought lay off the athletes themselves. They are out racing in and against the elements, winning events that earn them World Cup starts, and then often having to self support, sometimes entirely. The USSA sets up Olympic qualifying standards but doesn't do much at all to assist the skiers in meeting those standards. So we make many pay to play, don't provide enough training, coaching, and other general support, whack them them with really difficult qualifiers, or ignore them when they meet the standards. Don't get me started on their ignoring NCAA racing accomplishments until it's maybe too late (David Choudunsky). We could do better.

 

[Tricia]

There's plenty of room for criticism concerning the USSA, or is it the now the USSSA?, but I think we ought lay off the athletes themselves. They are out racing in and against the elements, winning events that earn them World Cup starts, and then often having to self support, sometimes entirely. The USSA sets up Olympic qualifying standards but doesn't do much at all to assist the skiers in meeting those standards. So we make many pay to play, don't provide enough training, coaching, and other general support, whack them them with really difficult qualifiers, or ignore them when they meet the standards. Don't get me started on their ignoring NCAA racing accomplishments until it's maybe too late (David Choudunsky). We could do better.

Absolutely!

 

[Muleski]

The USST determines who they enter in every WC. Sometimes they have very objective measures for a slot of two, like a time trial. Some of our athletes, even the independent ones have been promised WC starts for the entire season. Presumably so that they will keep at it, and pay.

There days of their being any sort of qualifiers for the WC {other than season year end champs in NorAms} or winning a domestic race and having it mean a WC start are history. More likely is "ski well in these two and we'll hopefully start you." As yep, politics can come into play. Sadly. Ski politics.

I agree that leaving the athletes out makes sense. They are just trying to accomplish whatever their goals are. In some cases it's frankly holding on, and continuing to earn a decent living. Who can blame them? The USST is the governing body that condones it. Or wants it to continue.

I DO think that questioning what's going on with the USST, specific to some athletes is absolutely fair game. If done with some respect. How can you NOT have that discussion?

I guess it's tough when some feel that others of us are unfairly picking on a skier, whom they have always "liked." Or based on what they thought they knew, liked.

This thread is focused on the men. Don't think we have that issue with them.

 

[BGreen]

I do not think that "lean and mean" applies to the USST , other than when it comes to funding athletes.

Politics and cost will keep the USST from achieving any meaningful goals. We lose top young athletes to other sports because the cost of continuing to be a ski racer is too high, and other sports are willing to pay them.

 

[Muleski]

Politics and cost will keep the USST from achieving any meaningful goals. We lose top young athletes to other sports because the cost of continuing to be a ski racer is too high, and other sports are willing to pay them.

Presume you agree that athlete funding is pretty darn lean! Ha!

We agree that the cost of the sport is enormous, bordering on nuts, when you really look at the top end of what some parents are spending. I don't see any way to prevent that spending, and it's bothersome to me and problematic in the big picture when the spending "works" in terms of delivering the results and developing the young athletes. It's one thing to make sacrifices to fuel this. It's another to essentially build a team of one for your child.

The other issue that you raise, I think, really only applies to a very select few. I think that's unfortunate, as well, as "kids" who are bailing on the sport because of the cost, and have realistic opportunities to switch gears and become a pro in another sport seem pretty rare. These days, they seem to go all in on skiing, pretty young, and drop other sports where they may have had a brighter future.

I admire a number of kids that I knew who largely bailed on ski racing after their J3 years, some after spending a year in a ski academy, and decided to switch "back" to team sports {or to go all in on team sports}. I know one who one to captain two college teams. He was a heck of a ski racer, but the finances were going to cripple his family. I know others who just felt that the dream was not going to happen, and cut back on the ski racing, playing another sport through college.

I've seen a few U16 and U19 girls lately......good ones, who have decided that they are going to play other sports in college. At the Division One level. Soccer with a couple. Tennis. Golf. Not sure if it's all the cost, but I know a big part is the fun for these kids. I heard of one exceptional one who is rodeo riding in college.

But yeah, I hear that one of our very best juniors, a can't miss kid, just out of high school, has shifted gears.....as @BGreen describes. If you love two sports, are equally talented at both, and need to focus on one, picking the sport that will not cost your family a dime, and where you will actually be paid as a developing pro, seems like an easy decision. Very easy.

I think we need to find a way to do our best to make this "self funding" of athletes, other that perhaps one PG or gap year before college {or being funded by the USST} a rarity rather than an expectation. I fear that we'll end up with a team of our wealthy kids, and not necessarily our best. We're actually there to some degree right now.

Good point. Needs a lot of thought and fixing.

 

[Swede]

My daughter is doing her first season ”off” racing ... U16 in a Stockholm club and ... feels like I’m rollin’ in money.