• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Can you carve ice?

Thread Starter
TS
A

at_nyc

Getting off the lift
Pass Pulled
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Posts
646
Get creative and you can almost always find a way down where you don't need edges, at least out west.
Well, I can "get down". But that's not why we go to the mountains. We go there to have fun.

I'm willing to invest in a "ice ski" if that helps the learning process. But I'm concerned about having to go at speed part. At my age, I'm not sure I want to LEARN something that only works at speed. For learning implies making some mistake in the process. Mistake at speed is not a comforting thought. More over, I don't heal as well as when I'm younger in the event...
 

surfsnowgirl

Instructor
Skier
Joined
May 12, 2016
Posts
5,764
Location
Magic Mountain, Vermont
I'm a slow skier and skied my Atomic Redster XTI's at nice easy paces and it was very compliant. A race/slalom/ice skate pair of skis can be skied slow. I imagine some are more compliant than others and some may perform better at speed. However, my Redsters did whatever I wanted and that included my slow n steady pace. I just prefer a pair of "ice skates" when I know it's going to be 'one of those days' My stocklis and rally's are very compliant on hard surfaces. However, now that I sold my Redsters I miss that edge grip on ice since that's a lot of what I ski on. I'm on the hunt for another pair.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mdf

tball

Unzipped
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,362
Location
Denver, CO
Well, I can "get down". But that's not why we go to the mountains. We go there to have fun.
Let me clarify. I'm assuming you are having fun elsewhere on the mountain where it's not icy. By "get down," I mean either back to the lift after the fun stuff or back to the base at the end of the day.

Think Tourist Trap at Vail. There are some fun trees next to that disaster of a run where you can avoid the ice and the ER.
 
Thread Starter
TS
A

at_nyc

Getting off the lift
Pass Pulled
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Posts
646
Let me clarify. I'm assuming you are having fun elsewhere on the mountain where it's not icy. By "get down," I mean either back to the lift after the fun stuff or back to the base at the end of the day.
.
If you read my first post in this thread, I'm looking for MORE fun on days when off-piste is out of play.
 

tball

Unzipped
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,362
Location
Denver, CO
If you read my first post in this thread, I'm looking for MORE fun on days when off-piste is out of play.

Yeah, I just don't agree with this:

There had been days in my past trip when off-piste was just too crappy to venture into and I was force to amuse myself on the groomer.

Here's how some of us have tons of fun in crappy conditions without tuning our skis (OK, maybe once a year):
  • Get out first thing in the morning and rip up the corduroy while it lasts.
  • Once the cruisers get icy, stay off-piste as much as possible, especially avoiding any high traffic cruisers.
  • If there are no off-piste runs open (WROD season), go home.
I'd rather be on an icy bump run than an icy cruiser any day. Off-piste you can use the terrain variations to control your speed, and there are 1/1000th the skiers to run into you.

Crappy off-piste conditions are "good for you" (your skiing). Crappy (icy) on-piste conditions are good for orthopedic surgeons and ski injury attornies.

I know that doesn't work everywhere but has been reliable here in CO.
 

Scruffy

Making fresh tracks
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Posts
2,428
Location
Upstate NY
You don't need to go fast to carve ice, you can start a carved turn from a stand still. You may increase your speed above what you're use to once you get carving, but that can easily be mitigated by line choice.

You want to be light on your edges on ice, esp the top of the turn and until you set your edge and develop a platform for the edge in the ice. Move Pressure from ball of foot to your big toe as you come into the fallline. You want to smoothly and dynamically manage the resultant pressure building by flexing the inside leg, and using body angulation to "stand" on the outside ski. No park and ride, keep it dynamic all the way through to the transition.

You'll probably want to take some lessons. I read your Kicking Horse TR and I see you're not adverse to lessons. There's so much to setting yourself up to execute a good carve, it's hard to describe in a post. Instructors will give you all kinds of tips and methods to achieve the techniques.

A good book is Ron LeMaster's Ultimate Skiing.

Consider attending a Race Camp - There's a week long Race Camp held at Killington each Dec. It's open to all levels and you don't have to race to get a ton out of the camp. Very reasonably priced for a week of skiing with 5 days of instruction.
 

Josh Matta

Skiing the powder
Pass Pulled
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Posts
4,123
Well, I can "get down". But that's not why we go to the mountains. We go there to have fun.

I'm willing to invest in a "ice ski" if that helps the learning process. But I'm concerned about having to go at speed part. At my age, I'm not sure I want to LEARN something that only works at speed. For learning implies making some mistake in the process. Mistake at speed is not a comforting thought. More over, I don't heal as well as when I'm younger in the event...

The thing is there is no need to go fast to learn to ski on ice. But is important to ski a slow line fast......(doesnt mean ski fast). Better skis for sure can make a difference and there a couple narrow skis that make really nice as carved as possible turns as slower speed. the 2 I can think of are Blizzard Rc Ti, and Head SS I.Mag. I am sure there are others but I am unaware of them.

Beside skis, good tuning skills go pretty far. 1/3 is a good place to start, but .75 and 3 can even feel better. what you want, and many shops are incapable of doing a decent turn but if you know of one that does by all means use them.... Realize that on firm snow skis truly need touched up every day to maintain their edge grip. It doens't take long but a couple pass with a diamond stone everyday after a cermanic to get rid of any rollling of the edge.

After you have blamed the equipment and made it as good as possible, if you still having issues then you have run out of excuses and something in your skiing is holding you back. It something you probably do all the time. Skiing on ice isn't a different skill set......but just a patient but firm approach to an other wise good round with balance on the outside ski and legs turning separately from our pelvis bones. If those fundamentals in our skiing are already happening then skiing on firm snow shouldn't be to much of a stretch.
 

Uncle-A

In the words of Paul Simon "You can call me Al"
Skier
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Posts
10,893
Location
NJ
The thing is there is no need to go fast to learn to ski on ice. But is important to ski a slow line fast......(doesnt mean ski fast). Better skis for sure can make a difference and there a couple narrow skis that make really nice as carved as possible turns as slower speed. the 2 I can think of are Blizzard Rc Ti, and Head SS I.Mag. I am sure there are others but I am unaware of them.

Beside skis, good tuning skills go pretty far. 1/3 is a good place to start, but .75 and 3 can even feel better. what you want, and many shops are incapable of doing a decent turn but if you know of one that does by all means use them.... Realize that on firm snow skis truly need touched up every day to maintain their edge grip. It doens't take long but a couple pass with a diamond stone everyday after a cermanic to get rid of any rollling of the edge.

After you have blamed the equipment and made it as good as possible, if you still having issues then you have run out of excuses and something in your skiing is holding you back. It something you probably do all the time. Skiing on ice isn't a different skill set......but just a patient but firm approach to an other wise good round with balance on the outside ski and legs turning separately from our pelvis bones. If those fundamentals in our skiing are already happening then skiing on firm snow shouldn't be to much of a stretch.
Some of it is in your head as well.
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,697
Location
New England
The thing is there is no need to go fast to learn to ski on ice. But is important to ski a slow line fast......(doesnt mean ski fast). ....

I disagree with the parts in red above.

Skiing the slow line fast is a great piece of advice. It's THE advice when talking about recreational carving on very hard snow.

But but but... the "slow line" spends time heading towards the trees, across the hill, between turns. (I am assuming you are skiing groomers below tree line.) When you are carving "a slow line fast," you will indeed be heading towards the trees FAST between every turn. If something goes wrong during this part of the turn, you may hit the hard snow bodily and continue heading towards the trees FAST on that icy surface, without the benefit of skis-on-snow to deflect your trajectory. No need to ask me how I know this....

So let's not get effective downhill travel speed confused with the speed you carry while heading towards the trees. (I'm talking below tree-line skiing here). Carving the slow line fast involves A LOT of very fast skiing that's not pointing down the hill. That speed is a major part of the euphoria that carving produces.

Just don't expect to beat your comrades to the lift if they are skiing the fast line fast. You will get there last.
 
Last edited:

Josh Matta

Skiing the powder
Pass Pulled
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Posts
4,123
you can ski a slow line fast slowly with out carving..... I have seen you ski on a hardpacked nosedive you were skiing a slow line fast at a fairly moderate pace.

The tactical idea of slow line fast, can be better explained as making your path the speed you want to ski, and skiing it as offensively as possible, it doesnt mean go across the hill fast......it also doesnt mean you are railing every turn., heck in some cases it means you are going pretty slow. Look at my slow line fast bump skiing video, which was hard pack snow BTW. You can learn to do that with out ever GS turning down the hill on railed ski.
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,697
Location
New England
Yes, you are right. But the thread title is carving on ice, thus my post.
Shall we diverge and discuss "brushed carves???"
Can we do that without a train wreck?
 

Josh Matta

Skiing the powder
Pass Pulled
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Posts
4,123
My stance on this is carving is overrated...... but tail following the tips rounds turns is underrated. No need to call it a brushed carved but call it what you want, the end result is what I outlined in my first post in this thread.

If @at_nyc want to ski carve ice, then no she can not do it slowly, but reading her post between the line it sounds like she just want to enjoy harder snow conditions and she doesnt love speed, and that can be done .
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,697
Location
New England
I agree, yes, ice can be enjoyed at slowish speeds. One has to give up "carving" though, in its more narrow definition.
Or learn to carve and enjoy the speed (Wheeee!).
 

Viking9

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Sep 9, 2016
Posts
788
Location
SO CAL
Hey NYC can you imagine the bruise you would have on your backside practicing your high speed ice technique HA HA HA .
 

oldschoolskier

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Posts
4,225
Location
Ontario Canada
The biggest difference that ice makes is mostly in balance and then mostly fore/aft (generally aft). With ice you slide out if back.

Think of ice as natures feed back tool, it will show up the littlest error vs most other conditions that give you some leaway.

If you have issues consider a slight position change to correct balance. 99% of the time it looks correct but is just slightly off. All other thing being ok (ie tune, equipment, etc).
 
Thread Starter
TS
A

at_nyc

Getting off the lift
Pass Pulled
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Posts
646
reading her post between the line it sounds like she just want to enjoy harder snow conditions and she doesnt love speed, and that can be done .
Josh nailed it!

That is exactly what I wish to do! Now, can we continue on to the "how" part?
Shall we diverge and discuss "brushed carves???"
Yes, can we discuss that?

I've never heard of "brushed carve". So I'm all ears (and eyes)
 
Last edited:

Josh Matta

Skiing the powder
Pass Pulled
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Posts
4,123
the how was in my first post....well at least as much as possible with out seeing you ski.
 

Sponsor

Top