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Brem, Hirscher, and Gut to skip Soelden WC Season Opener 10/27/17

Muleski

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Yep. Many skiers on the shelf. Will Anna Veith be able to complete a real comeback, and when?

Other than the three mentioned above, and Veith, there are something like a dozen skiers who were likely to start at Soelden, who are confirmed out {some for the season}. I'm guessing that quite a few more might not be ready on race day.....two weeks from this weekend.

Sadly, it seems like one or two get banged up, or worse in the final training there before the racing. I think the hill is hard on the body!

But exciting to get the season started. Will be interested to see who the USST starts.
 

SkiSpeed

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This opens the door for some to get valuable points before the return of the traditional powerhouses. I hope that all the skiers return healthy from their injuries ready to go; it will be a great year for the Women's circuit if Veith and Gut are healthy and skiing well. It will present a legit challenge to MS for her defense of the overall.

Can't wait for Solden. What I would love to know is if there is anyone on the site who has seen both the Solden Pitch and the upper and lower Headwalls of the Killington pitch and can compare the two.
 

K2 Rat

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[QUOTE="SkiSpeed, post: 150916

Can't wait for Solden. What I would love to know is if there is anyone on the site who has seen both the Solden Pitch and the upper and lower Headwalls of the Killington pitch and can compare the two.[/QUOTE]

I have not been to Soelden, but have skied Killington Superstar a lot and saw the races last year. The big difference is how SUSTAINED the Soelden pitch is. It is one of the most sustained pitches on the tour. Killington headwall at the top might be steeper, but it is so short and they are not going very fast as the course last year had it's first gate on this pitch. This year they are moving the start up a little so they will have a bit of speed going over the breakover. The final pitch at Killington is quite steep, but not nearly as long as Soelden. But Killington is quite a sustained pitch for SL ( they are also lengthening the SL this year as the times were not very long last year).

This is not very scientific, but looking at Mika's runs at both, here is what I saw:

Soelden pitch - 20 gates and 35 secs
Killington top pitch - 6 gates and 12 secs
Killington lower pitch - 11 gates and 17 secs

I think what makes Soelden pitch so tough is while you are skiing the 35 secs down it, it is so bumpy, dark in the second run and never seems to end. Plus, they put good offset in it to control the speed. No need for much offset in the top Killington pitch. This makes Soelden typically not a "feel good" run. And for some, not a "look good" run due to the amount of stivots. Hopefully, the 30m will make it look better for the men.

And yes, I can't wait either !!!
 

SkiSpeed

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@K2 Rat, great analysis. My post above was a tad unclear. I spend a lot of time on Superstar as well and figured it would present a good challenge to the racers. I did go see the GS last year and was blown away by the skiing. The lower pitch would be even nicer if the trail runout was a tad longer so they could get the last 2 good gates set. Solden looks like a great challenge given that they go from a serious steep to a parking lot flat. It’s nice to have a local hill we can measure against. I would love to know the degrees at Solden; kind of figure it’s in the upper 30’s somewhere.

I think we’ll get a good sense of how the guys will look on the 30m boards as well; no place to hide. Almost time to race!
 

Muleski

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@K2 Rat, good observations. Thanks.
The hills are VERY different, and will be on race day.
First of all is the surface. Soelden is literally an icebox. And they always prep the hill to make it brutally tough.
Remember the Killington GS last season, when the surface just peeled away when Lara Gut made what looked like it was going to be a great turn. It just fell apart. There was no peeling away or falling apart a month earlier at Soelden. Now obviously, a lot of that had to do with the weather. Hopefully the course will be more consistent and "hard" at K this season.

So that is likely one thing. I think the women consider Soelden to be a tough, tough venue.

But yeah, Soelden is pretty gentle up top, and demands that you get a good start, and generate speed up top. Then you have that long, steep, wide wall of a "pitch". I kind of hesitate to even call it a pitch. It's long, and sustained. It has been particularly brutal in recent years on the 35M skis for the guys. A lot of ugly skiing. So yes, hopefully it will look a lot better this fall! Remember Ligety just owning it when he could go arc to arc down the whole face, and others struggled. Hopefully he still can. Going to be fun to watch as there are a ton of good GS skiers.

Then, as I have always been told, the entire deal is won or lost based on how well you transition from that pitch onto the final relative flat to the finish. Of you come out hot, and sustain it....money. If you grind a couple of turns at the bottom of the steep to hang on, and dump speed doing so, you really get punished.

Somebody like Lara Gut has done well at Soelden by skiing the entire steep section so much better and cleaner than anybody. It's a good hill for somebody like Tessa Worley, too.
Where MS can do really well is on the transition at the bottom, and on the final flat. She will reel back time there, or should.

I think Killington is an "easier" GS hill, relatively speaking, and with the added length should be a great SL venue. Particularly in Mother Nature pulls through with some cold. Chemicals work, but cold helps.

Either way it will be great racing with a great crowd! So neat to see in the USA!
 
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K2 Rat

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Here is a video of Gut vs Shiffrin at Soelden last year I made for the u12's and u14's I coach. Nothing too insightful, but pretty basic and really meant to get the kids interested in watching WC races and also to show them how they can learn something while watching races.


 

K2 Rat

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Here is a video of Gut vs Shiffrin at Soelden last year I made for the u12's and u14's I coach. Nothing too insightful, but pretty basic and really meant to get the kids interested in watching WC races and also to show them how they can learn something while watching races.


 

Muleski

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@K2 Rat, Awesome!

One thing that I would never, ever get into with kids, but which pretty obviously a lot of people pay attention to, are the actual skis {and boots}, the "material" that any given skier is on. I'd say that at the time of that race, Lara Gut was on setup that ar least for her, worked better. Part of it his her very strong, compact physique as well. for whatever combination of reasons, she was able to bend those skis, and really ski some clean, fat and powerful arcs. And pull off a couple of impressive stivots. When she threw down that run, I recall a number of people who were there saying that Gut skied it "like a guy", when none of the other women did. Not meant to be sounding sexist. Just a fact. She is a very strong, fit, and technically astute skier.

I also acquit sure that by the time that MS won the two back to back GS races in , she was on a different e setup entirely. Different boots, skis, and who knows what for the minute details of her bindings and plates. It does make a difference but it's like nitro discussing that with kids who have their setups for the season1

Two other personal thoughts. Gut has always had a very fast, and explosive start. A big part of her game plan, her training, and her dryland. MS has historically had the first split of her first run be her slowest section in pretty much every race. I think they have world real hard to change that, as it's essential to her being on the podium in GS, but it's not been natural. Sound like it should be, but it's no the easy. MS tends to ski faster, and reel in more time as a race goes on. IN SL, she's making time on every single direction change, hence the margins.

At all of 22 years old, if they have worked on some of that this summer, she should be even tougher in GS. And hopefully her skis are dialed in and working well. They make a huge difference in this event. It's a easy to assume that Atomic simply can make her the best GS skis going. Not so easy. It has been a big, big struggle to get Hirscher set, shall we say. He's had fast GS skis for a couple of years. Where from. Another question.

Awesome video and commentary!!!!
Thanks!
 

Started at 53

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Frankly

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Hmm with the World Cup titles being secondary to Olympic Gold it should be very interesting AFTER the Olympics are over. We probably won't have clear leaders and could have a wider field of potential challengers which should make for more exciting races.
 

Primoz

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Main difference with Soelden and any other course, when talking about Women WC of course is, that Soelden is men course. And also preparation is done for Sunday's men race, which is main event of the weekend. While they always try to do some extra for Sunday, and it shows some extra roots from Saturday's race, and extra polish from day of constant slipping on Saturday, base needs to be there. And base is different then it's normally for women's races. This makes hill much much harder then it would normally be. Otherwise, while it's not spectacularly steep, it's still pretty damn steep, but main thing is length of the steep. For example, top part of Kranjska Gora GS is steeper for sure, but when I go free skiing there, I'm done with that part in some 5 or 6 turns. Soelden's steep is basically 3/4 of the course, so even for free skiing, you are pretty much dead by the end of the steep.
 

K2 Rat

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Soelden got the green light today as expected from FIS Snow Control. They are going to put in a roller near the beginning of flat to "effectively shorten" the flat. And trying not to make it a skating rink. This is the report on skionline.ch using google translate:


"If one had written a diary, it could not have been better," said Ishear Grüner, the district chief, on this year's preparations. Sufficient snowfall and suitable temperatures had provided ideal conditions for the preparation work. The youngest weather had not only been used by the organizers, but virtually all nations were trained on the challenging racetrack. This presents itself in a slightly new design in 2017. At the end of the steep slope an artificial wave was worked in to shorten the eternally long flat piece to the finish somewhat. In addition, the drivers can now accelerate by clever utilization of the new topography. "The underside of a wave always provides a certain steepness, which can be used actively to record speed again,

Until this Saturday the teams can still train, then the 3000 meter high racing track is finished. This mainly includes the installation of certain safety devices such as "Air Fences" and the cabling. Finally, the route is also treated with water. "We will certainly not make an ice rink, but a compact, fair track on which even the starting number 70 should have a chance," promised Grüner.
 

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