Base Prep - Repeated Full Wax Cycles vs Once Layer Repeatedly Ironed?

[NateR]

Hello all,

Got some skis I'm getting ready to run through a few cycles of waxing rather than hot boxing. I've read it said that "got boxing skis is like waxing skis XX number of times," so am curious if those are full wax/scrape cycles.

When you're not trying to clean out the bases, and instead are waxing with the intention of getting the wax deep into the base, is the following a thing?
Put on a thick layer of base prep wax, then iron it in. Wait for ski to cool, then iron it in again. Repeat however much you want. Then scrape, etc.

I'm pretty new to tuning, so let me know if this works like I'm imagining it would. Do people do this? I'd imagine that'd be just as effective, easier, and waste less wax.

Thanks
Nate

 

[Sibhusky]

Well, that's probably fine for new skis, but with anything that has been used I'd be hot scraping because I'm not trying to work dirt down into the bases. You don't have to scrape it totally off, just make sure it's scraping clean looking wax. I usually, on older skis, do three cycles of wax/scrape and then a wax/cool before my next layers start building. That's just a pre season thing I do. Each set of skis will have gone through at least six wax cycles before day 1. In addition to structure refreshes before I start, and a ton of scraping and brushing. Of course, my daughter thinks I'm nuts. But I'm retired and have the time.

 

[raytseng]

Your idea is valid, but you are getting diminishing returns if you're not racing. You are better off doing three quick wax jobs every 3 days of skiing rather than spend triple the time for a super-job and hoping it'll be fast for 9days.
Remember, the ski base isn't a huge sponge, it's still only just a few mm thick.

That being said, I agree that with new skis, increasing the molten wax time has benefits versus just zooming over it once and scraping it 3 times with new wax each time.
Tip1: Be sure you use enough wax, don't go too stingy. You can go much stingier on future wax jobs.
The big tip: if want to increase the molten wax time through multiple ironings you should embrace the fiberlene/shop towel method. That way you have actual fabric carrier loaded full of molten wax wiping your ski up and down with molten wax, and not just the iron's metal plate that is heat cycling and squishing the wax around. If there is any dirt, the fiberlene has a chance to catch it compared to the bare metal and reduce the amount you grind it into your base.
For your final passes, if you are not planning on doing a hotscrape; using fresh fiberlene can also suck up and majority of the excess wax to make your subsequent steps go faster

 

[NateR]

Well, that's probably fine for new skis, but with anything that has been used I'd be hot scraping because I'm not trying to work dirt down into the bases. You don't have to scrape it totally off, just make sure it's scraping clean looking wax. I usually, on older skis, do three cycles of wax/scrape and then a wax/cool before my next layers start building. That's just a pre season thing I do. Each set of skis will have gone through at least six wax cycles before day 1. In addition to structure refreshes before I start, and a ton of scraping and brushing. Of course, my daughter thinks I'm nuts. But I'm retired and have the time.

Yup, this is specifically relating to new or freshly-ground skis.

Your idea is valid, but you are getting diminishing returns if you're not racing. You are better off doing three quick wax jobs every 3 days of skiing rather than spend triple the time for a super-job and hoping it'll be fast for 9days.
Remember, the ski base isn't a huge sponge, it's still only just a few mm thick.

That being said, I agree that with new skis, increasing the molten wax time has benefits versus just zooming over it once and scraping it 3 times with new wax each time.
Tip1: Be sure you use enough wax, don't go too stingy. You can go much stingier on future wax jobs.
The big tip: if want to increase the molten wax time through multiple ironings you should embrace the fiberlene/shop towel method. That way you have actual fabric carrier loaded full of molten wax wiping your ski up and down with molten wax, and not just the iron's metal plate that is heat cycling and squishing the wax around. If there is any dirt, the fiberlene has a chance to catch it compared to the bare metal and reduce the amount you grind it into your base.
For your final passes, if you are not planning on doing a hotscrape; using fresh fiberlene can also suck up and majority of the excess wax to make your subsequent steps go faster

I should've mentioned - this is for race skis (slalom, so based on various recommendations to forgo the hot box for technical skis, I'm just going to iron some base prep wax in). I'll be waxing every day, so this is just to give me a good base to start with.

 

[SlideWright]

Hello all,

Got some skis I'm getting ready to run through a few cycles of waxing rather than hot boxing. I've read it said that "got boxing skis is like waxing skis XX number of times," so am curious if those are full wax/scrape cycles.

When you're not trying to clean out the bases, and instead are waxing with the intention of getting the wax deep into the base, is the following a thing?
Put on a thick layer of base prep wax, then iron it in. Wait for ski to cool, then iron it in again. Repeat however much you want. Then scrape, etc.

I'm pretty new to tuning, so let me know if this works like I'm imagining it would. Do people do this? I'd imagine that'd be just as effective, easier, and waste less wax.

Thanks
Nate

As a performance minded rec skier with an eye on efficiency and minimize unnecessary steps, I haven't found a difference between multiple wax/scrape/brushing cycles and reheating a layer of prep wax multiple times. I also like to perform a 'light hot scrape' to skim off excess wax to save a few strokes later during final cold scraping, especially with harder, more durable waxes.

 

[Wilhelmson]

As a performance minded rec skier with an eye on efficiency and minimize unnecessary steps, I haven't found a difference between multiple wax/scrape/brushing cycles and reheating a layer of prep wax multiple times. I also like to perform a 'light hot scrape' to skim off excess wax to save a few strokes later during final cold scraping, especially with harder, more durable waxes.

With your efficient performance method, when/how much do you use the brush? I've become pretty good at waxing but am not sure of the most important times to use the brush, besides after scraping the old wax off.

 

[Dakine]

When you hot scrape the pressure under the scraping edge can be several thousand psi.
That has to help with filling base porosity with wax.

 

[SlideWright]

With your efficient performance method, when/how much do you use the brush? I've become pretty good at waxing but am not sure of the most important times to use the brush, besides after scraping the old wax off.

Brushing frees your base structure of excess wax to optimize glide. Mirror smooth bases create 'suction' or drag, especially in wetter snows.

Think of your base structure as micro mountain ranges and valleys with zillions of facets (ie 'nooks, and crannies'), each needing to get coated with a VERY THIN layer of wax. Hot waxing fills everything, burying all of theses facets as well as the peaks. Depending on how much scraping (and how sharp your scraper is) you perform, you will only succeed in removing the wax to the high point of the base and some out of the valleys. Brushing removes the excess wax in the nooks and crannies to expose the texture.

I brush until I see a consistent sheen, it feels the same and you can clearly see the structure:

 

[cantunamunch]

Hello all,

Got some skis I'm getting ready to run through a few cycles of waxing rather than hot boxing. I've read it said that "got boxing skis is like waxing skis XX number of times," so am curious if those are full wax/scrape cycles.

Those are full wax-scrape-brush cycles and the equivalency is ...approximate at best.

When you're not trying to clean out the bases, and instead are waxing with the intention of getting the wax deep into the base, is the following a thing?
Put on a thick layer of base prep wax, then iron it in. Wait for ski to cool, then iron it in again. Repeat however much you want. Then scrape, etc.

It is a thing with cold (read: arctic) waxes since they're generally not easy to get into the base and absolutely beastly to scrape. BUT - you have to make sure you're working in an environment with low airborne dust. Not so true of some wax rooms. In a wax-scrape-brush cycle there is simply no time for dust to settle on the freshly brushed surface before the next coat goes on. With your method you're ironing the settled dust in. Now that power edgers are a thing, I expect even fewer will do it your way.

Do people do this? I'd imagine that'd be just as effective, easier, and waste less wax.

"Just as effective as wax - scrape - brush" - not really. Your method is not getting rid of remanent grind hairs and not getting rid of the sharp, grabby, front edges of the structure. Generally the tradeoff people make is "If I'm going to spend all this time on base prep, I want maximum return on my time" and if wax expense is a factor, they use cheaper prep wax. That's the thing about hot boxes - one goes off and does other things in the interval.

EDIT: Oh, this is for SL skis? Shape and polish your sidewalls.

 

[SlideWright]

When you hot scrape the pressure under the scraping edge can be several thousand psi.
That has to help with filling base porosity with wax.

I think of the structure being full of facets (not pores) and the scraping, along with ironing, tends to push liquefied wax into this structure while still pulling excess off along with some dirt/debris. Anyway, it might help and can't hurt.

 

[NateR]

Thank you for the insightful replies, all!

As a performance minded rec skier with an eye on efficiency and minimize unnecessary steps, I haven't found a difference between multiple wax/scrape/brushing cycles and reheating a layer of prep wax multiple times. I also like to perform a 'light hot scrape' to skim off excess wax to save a few strokes later during final cold scraping, especially with harder, more durable waxes.

Hey, I like that "light hot scrape" - That'd sure make the cold scrape easier. I'll be doing that!

When you hot scrape the pressure under the scraping edge can be several thousand psi.
That has to help with filling base porosity with wax.

That's a very good point!

"Just as effective as wax - scrape - brush" - not really. Your method is not getting rid of remanent grind hairs and not getting rid of the sharp, grabby, front edges of the structure. Generally the tradeoff people make is "If I'm going to spend all this time on base prep, I want maximum return on my time" and if wax expense is a factor, they use cheaper prep wax. That's the thing about hot boxes - one goes off and does other things in the interval.

EDIT: Oh, this is for SL skis? Shape and polish your sidewalls.

Effective for filling the base pores - not for daily waxes. My question is just about getting wax down into the base with the least time/effort - hot boxing doesn't get the hairs off, I'm just looking to get deep wax penetration at home.

And that's a good point about avoiding ironing in dust - I had not considered that.

-----------

Given those two points, I'm thinking I'll be doing thin layers of base wax with hot scrapes. Any research done on where diminishing returns starts happening with number of base prep waxings? We talking 2, 5, 10, more?

 

[raytseng]

I would say if you have bubbles or craters coming up; or after you cool and during reheat or the next pass you see new bubbles come up; you definitely can benefit with another pass. If no bubbles/craters, perhaps this shows the ski is fully loaded with wax and near diminishing returns.

 

[Jacques]

Hello all,

Got some skis I'm getting ready to run through a few cycles of waxing rather than hot boxing. I've read it said that "got boxing skis is like waxing skis XX number of times," so am curious if those are full wax/scrape cycles.

When you're not trying to clean out the bases, and instead are waxing with the intention of getting the wax deep into the base, is the following a thing?
Put on a thick layer of base prep wax, then iron it in. Wait for ski to cool, then iron it in again. Repeat however much you want. Then scrape, etc.

I'm pretty new to tuning, so let me know if this works like I'm imagining it would. Do people do this? I'd imagine that'd be just as effective, easier, and waste less wax.

Thanks
Nate

That will work fine. The more heating and cooling cycles is what gets the wax deeper.
Use about 180 to 190 F on the iron for the soft prep. waxes. Take your time to heat the ski and pay attention to edge cooling or any areas that cool quickly.
Be sure to clean the base first with Swix Glide Wax Cleaner for best results.
Dominator Base Renew wax will be your best bet for this "preparation".
Scraping and brushing cycles can make for a better gliding ski too.
You won't get that part so much with your thought, but just as you say, leave plenty of wax on the ski as you heat and cool it several times.
Do this at "room " temperatures.

 

[NateR]

That will work fine. The more heating and cooling cycles is what gets the wax deeper.
Use about 180 to 190 F on the iron for the soft prep. waxes. Take your time to heat the ski and pay attention to edge cooling or any areas that cool quickly.
Be sure to clean the base first with Swix Glide Wax Cleaner for best results.
Dominator Base Renew wax will be your best bet for this "preparation".
Scraping and brushing cycles can make for a better gliding ski too.
You won't get that part so much with your thought, but just as you say, leave plenty of wax on the ski as you heat and cool it several times.
Do this at "room " temperatures.

When you say to clean the base, are you referring to periodic base cleaning, or even with brand new or newly ground skis?

Also, how does that Swix cleaner compare to JG Base Cleaner? I've got a bottle of that I picked up locally.

 

[focker]

Here is my current method. Can I get some feedback on ways I can improve?

Step 1: brush ski with brass brush
Step 2: Wax and hot scrape to clean base (only doing this once now, will do 2x's going forward)
Step 3: Set that ski aside for a day
Step 4: Apply the final wax, lightly hot scrap and set aside for 1-2 hours
Step 5: Scrape again and then brush with nylon brush until smooth
Step 6: Repeat steps 4 & 5

 

[cantunamunch]

Lose step 3, let your wax of the day cool more even much more than your prep wax.

 

[focker]

So the base prep wax can just be applied and hot scrapped and then I can move onto my final wax? Should I be brushing out my base prep wax before I apply my final wax?

 

[cantunamunch]

Yes and yes

 

[focker]

One last question. Is two cycles of final wax enough? This is for my sons skis who is in HS slalom racing.

 

[cantunamunch]

Yeah, probably. Just scrape and brush really really really well - and then brush just a little more.