Avoiding burrs when setting edge angle

[Rc231]

I am pretty new to edge tuning and looking for some technique advice. I have a new set of skis, that needed the bevels reset (1.5 base/2 side). I went through my process using a SVST final cut base guide and 2 degree side bevel going with a file, then 200 and 400 stones. I set base edge first, running the file until I fully removed a sharpie mark down the edge, then cleaning with the stone. I then did the same on the sides. after I finished I did a couple light passes with a gummy trying to match the bevel angles and a bit of dulling past the taper points. I then went skiing and couldn't release from the sidecut in medium firm snow but was fine in softer snow. When I got home and checked there was a burr running down the base edges that I could just feel with my nail that I am pretty sure was causing my problems. I just took off the burr with my 400 stone in the base guide and did some more gummy work so I think I am set now, the edges feel sharp but don't catch a bare finger running front to back or across from the base or sidewall.

In the future how do I prevent the burr? Is this bad technique or do I just need to plan the cleanup passes next time I set angles? I have not had this issue before but have mostly been making smaller bevel changes just to the side or just honing an already set edge with stones.

 

[KingGrump]

Burr Removal

What method does the Tuning Brain Trust favor for burr removal after edge sharpening with a file? It's been a kind of firm year, and I want to make sure I'm not giving any sharpness away with "my" technique. Thanks!

www.skitalk.com

 

[Henry]

"plan the cleanup passes next time I set angles?"
Yep. Several techniques are listed in the thread above. Pick one that suits your tools.

 

[James]

Which way was the file pointing when you filed? Towards the base or towards the top sheet?

 

[Rc231]

Which way was the file pointing when you filed? Towards the base or towards the top sheet?

I had the file pointing towards the base, maybe it is better pointing toward the top sheet?

 

[SlideWright]

How coarse was your file? Common practice is using a bastard file for reestablishing edge geometry, BUT I think it's over kill. Less burring may occur with a 2nd cut, fine cut or even a 100x diamond or coarse stone. They may require an extra pass or two, but removing less material each cut has some advantages, including micro-managing how much you cut vs possibly more than you need using a bastard or coarser file.

You can also 'freshen' side edges after they get chewed up or are super dull with finer cut files and an extra coarse/100x diamond or stone.

 

[GB_Ski]

Just to ask the obvious, file goes one direction, are you apply pressure on the back stroke?

 

[Rc231]

I used a 2nd cut file and the sharpie method to determine how many passes to take. The burr was fine enough that I couldn't see it unless I was looking just right but I could feel it with my nail and in my skiing.
This was my first time setting both edges, all of my past tuning has just been side edge maintenance where I mostly use stones that don't leave burrs.
Sounds like I just need to slow down and do some cleanup next time I do this. I was able to remove the burr with 2 passes of a 400 grit diamond in the guide and then polished a bit with a red gummy, these are mixed conditions skis so erring a little less sharp for a looser ride is fine.

 

[cantunamunch]

Sounds like I just need to slow down and do some cleanup next time I do this.

Yep.

 

[James]

I had the file pointing towards the base, maybe it is better pointing toward the top sheet?

Cut towards the top sheet. That way the file is cutting into the edge, not off it. Greatly reduces chance of hanging.burr. You do not need to do the hanging burr removal with the base file guide. Just use your finest diamond stone of better is like a white ceramic. Or use a hard atkansas Hold it flat on the edge. You don’t need much pressure.

Don’t be deluded by “sharpening” with diamond. Sure if you’ve got spinning power involved it’s great. It takes a file to sharpen. It removes much more metal. You should have strands of metal all over the place coming off. Refine with diamond stones or whatever stones. Hell you can wrap silicon carbide paper around a file.

Once they’re sharp and refined you won’t need to file them next time unless you’re hammering on ice. You can decide how sharp you want your edges. Dull carving skis on ice really blow. I skied too much on rental crap this Feb that was dull.

 

[SlideWright]

Due to the 'spring conditions' since January there's been more bullet proof & icy conditions than normal for the San Juans. Last year we were in the bullseye with near record snow, coupled with cold temps and great snow for virtually the whole season.

These threads are great and along with comments like James' above, they've been in the back of my head while tuning and skiing. Like yesterday, while really focusing on the edge feel on several different snows, trying to keep consistent grip as the snow surface changed continuously. There is clearly a 'soft snow' vs 'hard & icy' snow mentality. Lately, I've been wondering about trying only using a 100x diamond or stone vs also a 200x, 400x & occasional 600x, to have a little rougher/grippier edge to see if it simulated a 'micro-burr' sharp filed edge.

I think a filed corner seems more 'burr sharp' than 'smooth sharp' and grips the snow better. A local coach uses an electric tuner and the edges are sweet, but has than 'burr slicing' cut to them. He loves it that way. It never seemed necessary to me until more times this year skiing mornings before the frozen snow softened fort he afternoons.

I've got some diamond papers coming with various grits, including 60 grit for fabricating diamond files. Trying the 100x on one pair of edges and then the 60x on the other pair will be interesting to see.

FTR, files cut the edge. Diamonds cut and polish/hone, depending on grit. Metal scrapers (ie, wood scraping) work best when they are burnished and and have a definite burr. Then there's knife sharpening.

Typical diamond files/stones by grit:

• 100 Grit: Extra coarse for aggressive cutting
• 200 Grit: Coarse for medium cutting
• 400 Grit: Medium coarse for micro cutting and polishing
• 600 Grit Fine for polishing
• 800 Grit & Above: fine polishing

(For now, I'm dubbing the 60 Grit, Ultra-Coarse. We'll see what that does, including side wall removal, scraper sharpening and possible base structuring???)

Semantics can certainly be debated here and maybe someone better versed can define honing, polishing, cutting, burnishing, etc more accurately.

 

[Noodler]

Due to the 'spring conditions' since January there's been more bullet proof & icy conditions than normal for the San Juans. Last year we were in the bullseye with near record snow, coupled with cold temps and great snow for virtually the whole season.

These threads are great and along with comments like James' above, they've been in the back of my head while tuning and skiing. Like yesterday, while really focusing on the edge feel on several different snows, trying to keep consistent grip as the snow surface changed continuously. There is clearly a 'soft snow' vs 'hard & icy' snow mentality. Lately, I've been wondering about trying only using a 100x diamond or stone vs also a 200x, 400x & occasional 600x, to have a little rougher/grippier edge to see if it simulated a 'micro-burr' sharp filed edge.

I think a filed corner seems more 'burr sharp' than 'smooth sharp' and grips the snow better. A coach local coach uses an electric tuner and the edges are sweet, but has than 'burr slicing' cut to them. He loves it that way. It never seemed needed to me until more times this year skiing mornings before the frozen snow softened fort he afternoons.

I've got some diamond papers coming with various grits, including 60 grit for fabricating diamond files. Trying the 100x on one pair of edges and then the 60x on the other pair will be interesting to see.

FTR, files cut the edge. Diamonds cut and polish/hone, depending on grit. Metal scrapers (ie, wood scraping) work best when they are burnished and and have a definite burr. Then there's knife sharpening.

Typical diamond files/stones by grit:

• 100 Grit: Extra coarse for aggressive cutting
• 200 Grit: Coarse for medium cutting
• 400 Grit: Medium coarse for micro cutting and polishing
• 600 Grit Fine for polishing
• 800 Grit & Above: fine polishing

(For now, I'm dubbing the 60 Grit, Ultra-Coarse. We'll see what that does, including side wall removal, scraper sharpening and possible base structuring???)

Semantics can certainly be debated here and maybe someone better versed can define honing, polishing, cutting, burnishing, etc more accurately.

I switched to using a 60, 120, 200, 400 series of diamond paper for sharpening then polishing a few years ago and I never looked back. Less edge metal wasted and better results. Don't be afraid of an extra coarse diamond file (especially as a puck!). You really can sharpen completely with only a diamond file progression.

 

[SlideWright]

I switched to using a 60, 120, 200, 400 series of diamond paper for sharpening then polishing a few years ago and I never looked back. Less edge metal wasted and better results. Don't be afraid of an extra coarse diamond file (especially as a puck!). You really can sharpen completely with only a diamond file progression.

That's exactly what I'm hoping and expecting. This will be be more user friendly, especially when not having to use metal files. Aggressive cutting through micro-managing at it's best. The trouble lies using files vs using diamonds or stones.

(I had to go to the ER once after slicing open my palm on the edge while using a file. Pro tip: don't be watching the Final Four instead of your ski while filing...and wear protective gloves.)

 

[Noodler]

That's exactly what I'm hoping and expecting. This will be be more user friendly, especially when not having to use metal files. Aggressive cutting through micro-managing at it's best. The trouble lies using files vs using diamonds or stones.

(I had to go to the ER once after slicing open my palm on the edge while using a file. Pro tip: don't be watching the Final Four instead of your ski while filing...and wear protective gloves.)

I still use a panzar file to initially set the angles, but then it's diamond files only. Does a nice job of avoiding the burr concern. And of course, you must pull the ski sidewalls to ensure you can actually sharpen the edges.

 

[SlideWright]

I still use a panzar file to initially set the angles, but then it's diamond files only. Does a nice job of avoiding the burr concern. And of course, you must pull the ski sidewalls to ensure you can actually sharpen the edges.

Panzer=The Tuner's chainsaw. Seems more aggressive than necessary, but will git 'er done fast.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Single cut file. All you need to start, hard pressure aggressive cuts, feather light pressure precision cuts. Under the right hands can almost achieve a diamond stone edge and no burr.

https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/?itemCode=1-552-08497

Use play chalk in your file to prevent building up scarf (Dollar store stuff works just fine even cheaper borrow your kids hop scotch chalk, just make sure there is no grit in it).

Want to splurge get a file card (brush to clean file)

And yes a marker......read the various threads.

 

[tuomor]

I am trying to learn ski tuning. After using file I have used diamond stone lightly to remove burr. (Few passes base side and few passes edge side)
It's a little bit manual work so I am not so confident with it.
I noticed this kind of tool for burr removal. Has anyone try it?
https://vola.fr/en/sport/accessoires/finition/jomax-blade

Same device is also sold as Jomax mini blade,

 

[James]

I am trying to learn ski tuning. After using file I have used diamond stone lightly to remove burr. (Few passes base side and few passes edge side)
It's a little bit manual work so I am not so confident with it.
I noticed this kind of tool for burr removal. Has anyone try it?
https://vola.fr/en/sport/accessoires/finition/jomax-blade

Same device is also sold as Jomax mini blade,

Interesting, never seen it.

I don’t get the point of constantly having a stone against the base. There’s no need for that, but maybe I’m not understanding what happens.

 

[KingGrump]

I find removing base edge burrs free handed with a wet surgical stone probably the fastest and easiest method. I can hear and feel the burr being removed. Follow up with a blue gummy and I am all set. No need to complicate thing.