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PTskier

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Who has experience with Nokian WR G3? How do they stack up to the others that have been mentioned here?
That is Nokian's 4-season all weather tire with the Severe Snow Service emblem (snowflake on the mountain). Every tire design is a compromise. The greatest snow traction will melt like butter in the summer. The lowest rolling resistance tire will give up traction and maybe comfort. The longest tread life will give up traction. So...the WRG3 will do better in winter than an all-season, not quite as good in winter as a pure snow tire, not quite the total tread life (50,000 miles maybe) compared to an all-season but still decent in the summer.
 

Sibhusky

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Anyone know anything about the Nokian Nordman vs the Hakkapelliitta 8 or 9? My daughter is looking at tires for her new car and is budget minded. She was going to go for the Hakka's anyway, but started wondering about the differences.
 

DanoT

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That is Nokian's 4-season all weather tire with the Severe Snow Service emblem (snowflake on the mountain). Every tire design is a compromise. The greatest snow traction will melt like butter in the summer. The lowest rolling resistance tire will give up traction and maybe comfort. The longest tread life will give up traction. So...the WRG3 will do better in winter than an all-season, not quite as good in winter as a pure snow tire, not quite the total tread life (50,000 miles maybe) compared to an all-season but still decent in the summer.

Since the pure full blown winter tire and the 4 season all weather tire both have the snowflake/mountain icon, how does one tell the difference between the two types of tire?
 

BGreen

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I’m in desperate need of snow tires and I’ve been thinking about what @nay has been preaching for the last two years about understanding the conditions you drive in and matching a tire to those conditions. I drive the same roads as many other people on here, but at different times of day, and often before plows have been there. While many are driving on a plowed road (aka glare ice, thanks CDOT), I’m driving on a couple inches or snow or slush on top of ice. Same road, same day maybe as little as 30 min difference, but conditions that are different enough to warrant a different tire. An ice-biased tire like the Michelin X-Ice is great on ice and packed snow, but may not do as well for me as a more AT biased tire.
 

nay

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Since the pure full blown winter tire and the 4 season all weather tire both have the snowflake/mountain icon, how does one tell the difference between the two types of tire?

The mountain snowflake is almost irrelevant because the standard is 10% better traction than a reference all season. Virtually every all terrain or 4 season tire produced today can crush that standard.

In this case, the marketing designations are differentiate effectively into what is really now “all weather” and “winter” classifications.

Within “all weather” you have two primary tire types: 1) what used to be all terrain but is now a hybrid offroad true four season tire in terms of siping, tread design, and compound, i.e. truck tires where the traction of “all terrain” includes rain and snow, and 2) tires that are more road biased blend like the Michelin LTX but retain those advanced all weather compounds with more siping. Nokian is an outlier with the WR series that nods to four season compound wear with a winter tire tread. Within the two types here, you are biasing to offroad use if you have it along with deep snow, or just somewhat lighter snow and all road miles (or more likely for most, looks).

Within “winter” there is deeper tread for snow vs. ice focus, with studs taking up most of the true ice spectrum, noting that there are studdable all weather tires above, but it really defeats the point of a four season tire to stud it. An ice focused tire is likely to be relatively (to other winter options) poor as snow depth increases and possibly in rain, which is the Achilles heel of winter tires generally outside of heat. These are all specialist tires that you wouldn’t run year round.

Comparing the two categories, the aggressive all weather tire with deep tread, inner tread channeling, and large outer lugs will outperform a winter tire in heavy slush, deep snow, and rain with the winter tire outperforming as conditions get harder packed and icier. There are some exceptions - the Nokian Hakka SUV is a more aggressive tire than a Michelin LTX and would probably outperform it in deep snow, but the logic generally will hold. On dry pavement it depends - the all weather tire will generally outperform both in tread life and traction and both will have some noise.

The biggest distinction at this point to me is whether you drive a truck or a car. The all weather tires are so good now blending traction and treadwear that you only need more raw tread traction to drive at unsafe speeds, but these tires are generally too heavy duty for cars. Cars also need a lot more forward traction assistance than trucks and don’t have the clearance or drivetrain to play in deep stuff or offroad, so the benefit of that type of tire is low.

Simply said, in my view a “winter tire” is unnecessary on a truck and will cost a lot more over the life of two tire sets than an all weather tire while restricting versatility in the process. And an all weather tire isn’t really designed for light duty cars and isn’t likely enough for 2wd in icy or steep conditions anyway, so with cars you are largely forced to still pay the piper.
 

x10003q

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I just had 4 Pirelli Scorpian Winter tires installed on my Touareg. In my 28 years of owning awd audis and VWs, this is the first time for snows. I always put snows on my fwd and rwd cars. The main reason for the change is the drive to Vermont seems to see more snow, higher altitude and bad roads vs my previous weekend drives to Gore. Last season in VT, there were a few times when I would have rather had snows vs my all seasons. I have never been stuck or had any problems with all seasons and awd. So far, these Pirellis handle and are as quiet as my Goodyear all seasons.
 

tball

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I’m in desperate need of snow tires and I’ve been thinking about what @nay has been preaching for the last two years about understanding the conditions you drive in and matching a tire to those conditions. I drive the same roads as many other people on here, but at different times of day, and often before plows have been there. While many are driving on a plowed road (aka glare ice, thanks CDOT), I’m driving on a couple inches or snow or slush on top of ice. Same road, same day maybe as little as 30 min difference, but conditions that are different enough to warrant a different tire. An ice-biased tire like the Michelin X-Ice is great on ice and packed snow, but may not do as well for me as a more AT biased tire.

Driving in those conditions on I-70, get yourself a great snow tire!

Check out this article comparing AT tires with snow tires:
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2016/03/winter-tire-test-some-treads-are-better-than-others.html

From the summary:
Between driving the twisting road course and the straight-line acceleration and brake testing, it's no surprise the dedicated snow tires — Bridgestone Blizzak and Goodyear Ultra Grip (whether studless or studded) — came out leading the way when compared to the factory all-season treads. And it's no surprise that the popular and more aggressive all-terrain and mud tires didn't come close in performance either.

What was surprising was how poorly an aggressive mud tire performs on snow-packed and plowed roads. We also were expecting the all-terrain tires to fare better than they did. But as we learned from this comparison between tread types, tires with fewer voids and more sipes that keep snow packed into the tread face provide better traction than those that eject the snow.

The other enlightening and impressive aspect of driving these different tires back-to-back-to-back in these conditions is today's modern technology found in studless winter tires and how well they increase grip on icy, snowy road surfaces. Pickup owners concerned with maximizing vehicle control and minimizing the risk of accidents should keep that in mind when thinking about making seasonal tire changes.

Note they didn't even test the *best* snow tires, Michelin and Nokian per Consumer Reports.

The simple answer is to get some of these!
https://www.nokiantires.com/winter-tires/nokian-hakkapeliitta-9-suv/

Nokian_Hakkapeliitta_9_SUV.png
 

DanoT

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I just had 4 Pirelli Scorpian Winter tires installed on my Touareg. In my 28 years of owning awd audis and VWs, this is the first time for snows. I always put snows on my fwd and rwd cars. The main reason for the change is the drive to Vermont seems to see more snow, higher altitude and bad roads vs my previous weekend drives to Gore. Last season in VT, there were a few times when I would have rather had snows vs my all seasons. I have never been stuck or had any problems with all seasons and awd. So far, these Pirellis handle and are as quiet as my Goodyear all seasons.

While a AWD with all season tires can work well enough providing uphill traction, the AWD does just about nothing in providing traction or grip when braking and neither does an all season tire if it is colder than -7*C/20*F. So, having used up all of your luck over the past 28 years in not encountering a need for heavy braking in very cold temps, it good to hear you are getting the safer tire set up.
 

UGASkiDawg

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My Hankook Dynapros which have about 44K on them are getting a little more slippery in the snow. They were great the last two winters though. I'm driving I70 between Denver and Frisco roundtrip 2-3 times per week and I want to have max traction. I ordered a set of Cooper Discoverer M+S because they were cheap in a 20" tire and I'm on budget. I'll put the Dynapros back on in the spring. If I weren't on budget I would have bought some 17" wheels and gone with the Hakka's that we have on our Sienna. If i could stand the noise I'd get them studded but alas I can't take it.
 

tball

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If i could stand the noise I'd get them studded but alas I can't take it.

That, sir, is the sound of safety. ogwink

That's a twist on an experience I had years ago. I was meeting with a C level client at the then Conagra meat processing plant in Greeley. I made the mistake of mentioning the odor that was particularly bad that morning. Oops.

He replied with a stern face: "Son, that's the smell of money."
 

ScotsSkier

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My Hankook Dynapros which have about 44K on them are getting a little more slippery in the snow. They were great the last two winters though. I'm driving I70 between Denver and Frisco roundtrip 2-3 times per week and I want to have max traction. I ordered a set of Cooper Discoverer M+S because they were cheap in a 20" tire and I'm on budget. I'll put the Dynapros back on in the spring. If I weren't on budget I would have bought some 17" wheels and gone with the Hakka's that we have on our Sienna. If i could stand the noise I'd get them studded but alas I can't take it.

You need to tell em how you get 44k out of the Hankooks! Don't think mine will get past 20k!:eek: on my F150... They have worked quite well in less extreme snow conditions though and one of the better AT tires I have used, I have run 20inch Yoko IG51s for the last couple of seasons for winter (great tires!) but got a set of General arcticMax for this winter to try something different. I just keep a dedicated set of wheels for Winter for easy changeover,


BTW, there is an interesting article on Nokian in the December issue of Motor Trend, They are pushing to increase their market share in the USA and are actually opening a factory here in 2020
 

Ken_R

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My Hankook Dynapros which have about 44K on them are getting a little more slippery in the snow. They were great the last two winters though. I'm driving I70 between Denver and Frisco roundtrip 2-3 times per week and I want to have max traction. I ordered a set of Cooper Discoverer M+S because they were cheap in a 20" tire and I'm on budget. I'll put the Dynapros back on in the spring. If I weren't on budget I would have bought some 17" wheels and gone with the Hakka's that we have on our Sienna. If i could stand the noise I'd get them studded but alas I can't take it.

I have the Discoverer AT/3's and love them. Really good in the snow last winter. The M+S's should be good.
 

UGASkiDawg

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You need to tell em how you get 44k out of the Hankooks! Don't think mine will get past 20k!:eek: on my F150... They have worked quite well in less extreme snow conditions though and one of the better AT tires I have used, I have run 20inch Yoko IG51s for the last couple of seasons for winter (great tires!) but got a set of General arcticMax for this winter to try something different. I just keep a dedicated set of wheels for Winter for easy changeover,


BTW, there is an interesting article on Nokian in the December issue of Motor Trend, They are pushing to increase their market share in the USA and are actually opening a factory here in 2020

Only have 240HP instead of 400:D

After I go through this pair of Snows I'll get a 17" wheel set and use those for my winter tires.....just didn't want the extra $400+ this year.
 

UGASkiDawg

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That, sir, is the sound of safety. ogwink

That's a twist on an experience I had years ago. I was meeting with a C level client at the then Conagra meat processing plant in Greeley. I made the mistake of mentioning the odor that was particularly bad that morning. Oops.

He replied with a stern face: "Son, that's the smell of money."


You'd think with a diesel that I couldn't hear them ...hmm maybe I should have my guy stud them when they arrive next week.
 

BGreen

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@UGASkiDawg I’ve been running those Coopers since 2007. They’re nothing special, but they seem to handle I-70 slush better than anything else I’ve used. I may just get another set, but also thinking about the Hankook snows, and Falken At3w.
 

colospgmike

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Just pulled the hankook dynapros (33K/9/32) off my Yukon XL two days ago. Went with the Yokohama iceguard ig51v . Starting tread 13/32. Should still get a couple more summers out of the hankooks. Fingers crossed on the tread wear with the yokos as we get a fair number of warm dry days in Colorado Springs. Because of this I was afraid to go with anything softer.
 

ScotsSkier

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Just pulled the hankook dynapros (33K/9/32) off my Yukon XL two days ago. Went with the Yokohama iceguard ig51v . Starting tread 13/32. Should still get a couple more summers out of the hankooks. Fingers crossed on the tread wear with the yokos as we get a fair number of warm dry days in Colorado Springs. Because of this I was afraid to go with anything softer.

If you are still at 9/32 on the Hankooks @ 33k then you have absolutely no worries. The Yokohama is an exscellent choice, probably the best snow tires I have used and I have tried a lot. Dry road performance is pretty good, a little more roll over the shoulder of the tire than the Hankook but much less squishy than say the blizzak. Wear rate is good. Just put my wife’s ones back on her macanturbo and after 2 Years and ~7 k miles pretty close to new. Even the ones I had on my truck lasted 2 seasons and still have plenty of life in them. (And I admit to burning throughtires more quickly than most!)
 

x10003q

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While a AWD with all season tires can work well enough providing uphill traction, the AWD does just about nothing in providing traction or grip when braking and neither does an all season tire if it is colder than -7*C/20*F. So, having used up all of your luck over the past 28 years in not encountering a need for heavy braking in very cold temps, it good to hear you are getting the safer tire set up.
Not exactly on traction.
Audi Quattros in various forms were banned from many sports car racing series in the 1980s/1990s due to the quattro traction advantage - especially in the wet - despite less HP and more weight at times. I have repeatedly played around in snowy parking lots and it was always interesting to stay on the gas after forcing traction to break on all 4 tires and watch the quattro collect itself and regain traction despite having all seasons. Are snow tires better? Of course, but not always needed if you have awd. As for braking, until the late 1990s, Audis had a switch to turn off the anti-lock to allow shorter braking in snow and loose dirt.

All those years of weekend warrior skiing while driving quattro awd and all season tires and no issues is not about luck or using up luck.ogwink
 

Sibhusky

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I had 13 years of Quattro use in NJ and only bought snows when I moved here. Never even needed them to get up to the Village at Camelback townhouse we owned. (But bought the first Quattro because of that hill. Was stranded at the switchback with an infant and two elderly parents one night. A Jeep got us home.)
 

François Pugh

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Not exactly on traction.
Audi Quattros in various forms were banned from many sports car racing series in the 1980s/1990s due to the quattro traction advantage - especially in the wet - despite less HP and more weight at times. I have repeatedly played around in snowy parking lots and it was always interesting to stay on the gas after forcing traction to break on all 4 tires and watch the quattro collect itself and regain traction despite having all seasons. Are snow tires better? Of course, but not always needed if you have awd. As for braking, until the late 1990s, Audis had a switch to turn off the anti-lock to allow shorter braking in snow and loose dirt.

All those years of weekend warrior skiing while driving quattro awd and all season tires and no issues is not about luck or using up luck.ogwink
Yes. Not just luck. Also knowing how much longer the no-season tires take to stop on ice, and how much you need to slow down for the icy corners and driving accordingly, but still a bit of luck in that you never were in need of extra stopping power or steering grip to get out or stay out of someone else's path.

I Just put the Hakka R2s on the car last night.
 

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